P51D vs Spitfire MkXIV (14)

[fdiron]

A few years back I heard about alot of reports on how the P51 was a mediocre plane in real life.  Besides range, the Spit MkXIV was superior in every category than the P51.  Now I personally dont believe any of this hogwash, but apparently alot of people do.  Were than any mock combat tests done between the P51D and the Spitfire 14?

[Karnak]

I think that it really would be decided by the pilot.  Both have advantages.

The Spit's lay in its climb and turn.

The P-51D's lay in high speed handling and range.

Here is a link for you:

Spitfire MkXIV tests by the British during WWII:
Spitfire MkXIV testing
   

From the above link:
TACTICAL COMPARISON WITH MUSTANG III

Radius of Action
31. Without a long range tank, the Spitfire XIV has no endurance. With a 90 gallon long-range tank it has about half the range of the Mustang III fitted with 2 x 62 1/2 gallon long range tanks.

Maximum Speed
32. The maximum speed are practically identical.

Maximum Climb
33. The Spitfire XIV is very much better.

Dive
34. As for the Spitfire IX. The Mustang pulls away, but less markedly.

Turning Circle
35. The Spitfire XIV is better.

Rate of Roll
36. The advantage tends to be with the Spitfire XIV.

Conclusion
37. With the exception of endurance no conclusions can be drawn, as these two aircraft should never be enemies. The choice is a matter of taste.

Edit: Yanked a link that I didn't read until after I linked to it.  It was silly.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[fdiron]

Thanks for the links, very interesting!

[R4M]

Spit XIV was a great machine.

P51D was quite better IMO.

In AH the acceleration/climbrate/turnrate are way more important than they were in real life.

In real life what counted was speed,dive, zoom, hispeed handling, weapon punch, range and visibility. That is the reason why planes as the P51,P47, Fw190 or Corsair really shined. None of those accelerated or climbed especially well, and none of them was a turnfighter either.

Speed and visibility are so similar in both spit and P51 (assuming the spit is with bubble canopy), that there is no real advantage here. Dive,zoom and hispeed handling are owned by the P51D, without question. And I think that the weapons in the P51D were better for WWII fights (long ammo clips and very high RoF).

We wont even start talking about range, ok?  .

IMO even a P47D was better fighter than a Spitfire XIV in real life. Depends on wich is your conception of a fight, tho. If it is wich one can accelerate and climb better, the spit is way better, f course  

[Zigrat]

the p51 has the best cooling drag of any fighter at that point. its "laminar" flow wings actually did very little due to combat conditions, but it had an enormous drag reduction via the radiator exhaust.

[Karnak]

The Spit XIV's radiators produce quite a lot of drag.  The fact that they got P-51D-like speeds out of it is a more of a testament of the engine and prop system than anything else.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[GRUNHERZ]

In AH the Spit14 would give the mustang a lot of trouble at pretty much any alt. A spit 14 is really just a better handling and turning and possibly better climbing Bf109G10 armed with hispanos.

[niklas]

The Spit14 in this test had at least 2200hp in the first gear!

niklas

[Karnak]

niklas,

How do you calculate that?

I don't see it in the report.

[Angus]

If I remember correctly, I heard from a ww2 pilot that the spit 14 was a faster plane than his mustang. That had to do with V1 chasing, where both Tempests and spit14's could catch them in level flight, while the mustang needed a slight altitude advantage. Could this be correct.
Anyway, the spit 14 would be THE monster in AH, outclimbing 109's, outspeeding practically anything but the 262, and outturning anything but a lot slower planes.
Not to mention those hispanos.......
Me wants it  

[J_A_B]

How about a comparison of how well they perform towards the end of a 7-hour mission?

Methinks the grounded out-of-gas spit would lose, unless the P-51 driver flies like Gabby.

J_A_B

[niklas]

hi Karnak

i actually forgot to mention that i refer myself to the spitfire with the 5100ft/min climbrate.

Though the tactical trials again carefully avoid to mention absolut performance numbers, it is possible to estimate at least the sea level speeds.

Beginning with the FW-190, where we known that it did ~335mp/h near ground in english tests:
FW-190 (335mph / 540km/h)
Spit-14 +20 mph = 355mph (570km/h) - definitly not a speed king imo  
P51-III +20 = 355 mph (570km/h) very interesting, VERY interesting  
Temp V +40 = 375 mph (605km/h)
Spit9 - 15 = 320 mph (515km/h) with +18  
109G - 20 = 315mph (505km/h)

niklas

[R4M]

Originally posted by niklas:
P51-III +20 = 355 mph (570km/h) very interesting, VERY interesting  

Hehehe niklas... AH's P51B makes around 360mph on the deck, is a difference but not that big  

However...FIX IT <G,D,R>

BTW, have you got more of those Fw190A5 charts?. Can't wait to see the climb ones!  

[Naudet]

R4M, were u read that 190s didnt accelerate well??

From everything i read a D9 using MW50 was accelerating extremly good.

And when u compare speed charts of D9 and Spit XIV, it seems up to 22K the Ah Dora would still be a bit faster than the real Spit XIV.

Comparison off the charts i have on D9 and Spit XIV, leads to the conlcusion that D9 and Spit XIV are to each others what FW190A3 was to the Spit IX.

Under 22K the FW190 is slightly better above the spit.

For AH btw this would mean the Spit XIV will be THE plane, great turn, exellent climb, good dive. FW190s and P51s would fromt than on only attack a spit if it they have alt, if they dont have it they are dead.

[R4M]

Naudet, I dont say the 190 didnt accelerate well   the early A-series were very good climbers and accelerators,as it was the Dora.

However they didn't shine because their acceleration, even when it was quite good. That is what I say, the strong points of the D9 were speed, dive, zoom, visibility and weapons. Acceleration and climb never were that important for the german Boom-'n-zoom mentality   That is why the Fw190A8 had as much success as the early antons...The A-8 had poor climbrate and acceleration, yet they were as effective or more than the A-5, for instance  .