Ta-152

[-lynx-]

 

PS - Harmann's book is definitely a better source than Jane's.

cc that - Jane's All (what a joke!) of the World Aircraft 1945 is missing loads of planes in service at the end of the war and is, to say the least, short of info even on those included...

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lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[Nath-BDP]

Umm, I thought this was about the Ta 152 not being a variant of the D9, not the D9 being a different variant than the A??  I don't think anyone here is arguing over the fact that the D9 is/isn't a variant of the A series, RAM.

[funked]

The Ta 152 was a continuation of the Fw 190 series, just like Bf 109 became Me 109.

Fw 190A, Fw 190B Ta 152C, Fw 190D, Ta 152E, Fw 190F, Fw 190G, Ta 152H

Fw 190D-9 used wings, center fuselage, and empennage Fw 190A-7/A-8.  The only differences were the new cowling and engine forward of the firewall, and a constant-cross section "plug" that was inserted between the center fuselage and the empennage assembly.  But the center fuselage, wing, and empennage assemblies were completely unchanged from the late Fw 190A.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-01-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

How do you explain the Ta 152B-5 then?  

[funked]

No aircraft with the designation Ta 152B was actually built - only prototypes with V designations.  However some Fw 190B-0 and B-1 were actually built - not just V planes.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-01-2000).]

[SnakeEyes]

I guess that makes the F8F merely a continuation of the F2F series, eh?

F2F, F3F, F4F, F6F, F7F, F8F

PS - Where do the Ta-152A & B fit into that progression, Funked?  Plus, there was going to be a FW190C, but it never materialized... how does that affect the progression you outlined?

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 11-01-2000).]

[funked]

Ta 152A never left the drawing board.

[SnakeEyes]

If no production aircraft with the Ta-152 moniker were built, then how can you claim that the A, B, C, etc., progression demonstrates a relationship?  Sounds mutually exclusive to me.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[funked]

typo, Ta 152B

[Vermillion]

SnakeEyes, the only production aircraft of the Ta152 line, was from what we can tell from Hartmanns book 40 Ta-152H0's, and 3 Ta-152H1's.

There was also an additional two production Ta-152 aircraft that were intended for the unarmed recon varient (I forget the official designation right now, E possibly?) but due to the desperation of the last couple of months of the war were picked up by JG301 and armed in the field as C models, and some consider this as 2 production C aircraft.

All the other Ta152 subtypes never made it past the prototype stage.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[funked]

E was the armed recon variant.  It's unclear whether any Ta 152C or E were produced.  Certainly no Fw 190's were produced with C or E designation.

[SnakeEyes]

Right, but the point I'm making is that we have prototype Ta-152s with designations of:

A, B, C, E, and H

The fact that they weren't produced is irrelevant.  If the A, for example, was produced, wouldn't that be a problem for this neat little progression?  

Funked, prototypes for the A were created.  Maybe I mistook your comment and you mean that it never reached pre-production? [Nix this, irrelevant per your edit]

The fact that the Ta-152's letter designations might just possibly fit into this convention (perhaps as much due to the luck of the war ending as anything else) doesn't necessarily mean that the Ta-152 wasn't a "new" aircraft in and of itself.  

The Ta-152 has about as much in common with the original 190A series as the P-63 does with the original P-39.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 11-01-2000).]

[funked]

SnakeEyes, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the designation system.  Prototypes were given either a V designation (e.g. Fw 190 V53, prototype for Fw 190D-9, pictured above in RAM's post) or they were given a pre-production -0 designation (e.g. Fw 190A-0 or Ta 152H-0).

There were no aircraft built bearing the designation Ta 152A or Ta 152B.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-01-2000).]

[funked]

PS Ta 152H still used the center fuselage assembly from Fw 190A.  I believe the landing gear and horizontal stabilizer were still used also.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Umm, I thought this was about the Ta 152 not being a variant of the D9, not the D9 being a different variant than the A??  I don't think anyone here is arguing over the fact that the D9 is/isn't a variant of the A series, RAM.

   

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:

In any event, I view the 190D9 itself as being most of the way to "new plane" status.  Can you imagine taking a Mustang, adding a P&W RW2800 radial engine, changing the tail, modifying the gun package, lengthening the fuselage, and still calling it a Mustang?  And, as if that were not enough, you go on to modify it by changing the wings and other things on later prototypes?