Author Topic: The AH FW190D9 is 25Mph too slow or it doesn't model MW50! (Read 1147 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **on:** November 19, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »

Look at the chart, It models the 428Mph top speed with WEP. This figure is top speed without use of MW50. With MW50 the top speed was 453Mph. Either our D9 doesnt model MW50 or its a whopping 25Mph too slow.

Is "whopping 25mph too slow" hyperbole? You decide. How about if AH had 412Mph top speed with P51D?

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]

Sachs · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »

Grun from what I have read the D9 would hit 440-443, and under extreme circumstances could hit 451 IE letting it all hang out. From teh charts that are posted the D9 is 14 mph slower then it should be. Where is Naudet and those charts again? The Dora is slower but it won't be changed, but then again 437 for a 51 is an extra 14 mph gonna make a difference? I think it would least you might be able to outrun those damn LA-7's. If it is a fact then let the D9 have it, if the spit 9 is to slow then fix it. I don't care which plane is wrong I want them to be fixed.

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2001, 11:10:00 AM »

Not that it makes much difference, but that chart shows a speed of 432 or 433mph for the Fw190D-9.

R4M · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2001, 11:21:00 AM »

Grun, according with Naudet's charts (focke-wulf factory charts), the Fw190D9's speed in AH is correct under the assumption that is using B4 fuel and MW50 injection. The plane indeed is using MW50, because it lacks the aux fuel tank, and is using B4 fuel, because the speed almost perfectly matches the Focke-wulf speed chart for that configuration.

The 445mph figures at best altitude are with C3 fuel and MW50, and the 451mph figures are with C3+MW50,and without any external rack at all.

One can argue why is the D9 modelled with the B4 fuel instead of C3 (maybe because it was the most used configuration historically?. Not sure, but late 109s all used C3 fuel, while the Fw190A8 used B4 with C3 petrol injection...no idea about the 190D9s)...but what we can't say is that the speed is badly modelled. It is OK and accurate for the settings the dora has in Aces High.

That the settings are not the best is a completely different thing, and one I'd like to hear about (no conspiracy here, I'm really interested to know wich was the most used fuel in the doras).

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »

Doh! Forgot about B4 vs C3.

Nashwan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2001, 02:14:00 PM »

Quote

That the settings are not the best is a completely different thing, and one I'd like to hear about (no conspiracy here, I'm really interested to know wich was the most used fuel in the doras).

You believe the most common version should be modelled, RAM? Strange, with the Spit IX you want the oldest, slowest, least common variant modelled.
[/hijack]

R4M · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2001, 02:21:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nashwan:

You believe the most common version should be modelled, RAM? Strange, with the Spit IX you want the oldest, slowest, least common variant modelled.
[/hijack]

I want the fastest Fw190D9, no matter what.

I'm just interested in wich fuel did they use in a most common basis.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »

Anyway this proves allies arent the only ones who dont get the best possible version modeled. Try to remember that SpitIX and P47D11 guys.

Buzzbait · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2001, 04:16:00 PM »

S!

No comparison

If you said, ok, the D9, Me262 and A8 are all gone from AH, and the only non-perk planes available are the G6 and A5. And then turn around and give the Luftwaffe the G10, but make it cost 60 perk points.

That would be an appropriate comparison.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2001, 04:25:00 PM »

Is that meant for my last post Buzzbait? If it is its really kinda pointless, I think. Anyway to make you happy Ill mention that some have complained that the P47D30 wasnt made to perform as well as its best case data. Ok happy now bud?

Buzzbait · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »

S! Grunherz

Bring the 109G6 with DB605ASM to AH!!

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2001, 05:37:00 PM »

Hmmm good point there with G6ASM.

Naudet · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2001, 05:28:00 AM »

To clear things up:

The AH D9 is closest to the WEP speed of a FW190 using B4+MW50+Ladedrucksteigerunsrüstsatz@4270kg with ETC504 rack attached
which gave 430mph@17,7k

So far the fastest chart for a Dora i have seen is 438mph@18k
using C3+Specialemergencypower@4270kg with ETC504.

The SpecialEP is described here:

Quote

2) Sonder - Notleistung - Special Emergency
The Special Emergency power is the same principle as in the Fw190A. That is, bleeding of the airline of the blower to induce a petrol surge and use it as a charge cooler. The setting was the same as in the A8. There was a button, or lever, on the control panel to open the valve. To summarize, it was a petrol injection in the eye of the blower. It had the effect of increasing the boost by its charge-cooling effect. It could only be used at full speed and 3,250 rpm. It was usable for 10 minutes, This power curve is listed with C3 fuel and would produce 2130ps or 2100 hp.

And one very interesting is the one using:
B4+A-Lader als Bodenmotor @4270kg with ETC504

434mph@11.5k
398mph@SL

Counts for all seetings:
For speeds without the ETC 504 ordanace rack add 8 km/h (5 mph) below and 12 km/h (7.5 mph) above critical engine (6.5km)

I am trying to figure out if there was also a setting using C3+MW50+Ladedrucksteigerungsrüstsatz, cause this bird should be even faster than the D9 with C3+Specialemergencypower.

The only Problem i have with the AH D9 is that it seems to be one with a Ladedrucksteigerungsrüstsatz, but without the other benfits (beside the MW50 high power boost) it should get from em according to the following:

Quote

The addition of a "Ladedruckssteigerungs-Ruestatz" increased output from 1750 to 1900PS without an additional boosting agent such as MW-50 or GM-1. This could be used below 5000m and with the additon MW-50 gave an Emergency output of 2100PS. In addition, this enabled the previous Emergency power setting of to be maintained for 30 min on the deck and The climb and Combat power setting (1620PS) to be maintained indefinitely. This "Ruestatz" was in use with III/JG54 in October '44 and was in wide spread use with three other Jagdgeschwaders by December '44.

Below 5000 Meters (~16k) our D9 should be faster at full throttle than the curve we have now for non-WEP.
With Ladedrucksteigerung the usuall 1776PS WEP were increased to 1900PS and they could be maintained for 30! mins instead of 3-10 mins.

But yet i did not get an answer on my question to HTC which D9 AH really has.

R4M · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2001, 05:34:00 AM »

So, if I understand...

1900hp for 30 minutes

2100hp for 10 minutes.

Combat power for...ever?

is the current 190D9 using MW50 so I assume it uses the 2100hp figures?.

Quote

Originally posted by Naudet:
But yet i did not get an answer on my question to HTC which D9 AH really has.

Then, Naudet, please, directly email Pyro about this. And about the 190A5 speed too

Man, the ammount and quality of the information you have never stops impressing me! Keep it coming!.

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Porta · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2001, 06:04:00 AM »

Or he can directly see this page:
http://jagdhund.homestead.com/files/Dora.htm