Some ideas to discuss

[Oldman731]

The "Why Are There So Few People" thread produced (and may continue to produce?) some interesting ideas.  I thought perhaps that if we put them in a separate thread they might attract more attention and discussion.  So here are the ones I've located thus far:

From Gavagai:
  No bomber drones, they warp.
  Ack at 1.0 lethality
  Enemy icons at 3k
  Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft
  AvA arena moved to a server that isn't shared with the main arena

Disabling formations is something we can do.  I'd be interested in a discussion of the ack settings.  Enemy icons usually are set at 3k, so no change needed there.  The staff does not have the ability to implement ENY.  We can turn the perks on or off, but we can't change their value.  Obviously there's nothing we can do about the server.


from Antivortex:
How about create specific aircraft only available in the AvA, yeah I know thats most likely a dream. Though right now you could limit certain skins to only be available in the AvA or only enable the skins you would actually see in the specific confrontation for that weeks senario.

We can't create new aircraft, of course, but we can limit particular aircraft to particular bases.  The mapmakers can limit the skins when they make the maps - some of the FinRus maps do this - and we can encourage people to use authentic skins, but we can't enforce that in any way. 


From Wedge1126: 
Maybe AvA needs a name change.

This is interesting.  We started out as the "Combat Theater."  When we were required to change the name, it actually brought in quite a number of people who said they didn't know that Combat Theater was AvA.  So changing you name can have an effect.  Note:  it would be nice if comments on this particular issue stayed serious, instead of moving to a "Private Club" v. "Aristocracy" name fight.


From Dawger: 
2-week setup runs, advertised far in advance, and broader plane sets

The weekly setup change has been a feature of AvA since The Beginning, although it has occasionally lapsed due to staff confusion or unavailability.  What do people think about longer runs as a policy?  Soda is now working very diligently to be able to advertise plans in advance.  There will be a consequent loss of flexibility, of course.  Thoughts?

As to the broader plane set, I'd like to hear more specific suggestions.


From Humble:

Player self-control

Seems to me that this is what he has been saying all along.  I fully agree.  Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue.  We would love, simply love, to hear thoughts on this.

Keep 'em coming.  And please comment on the foregoing suggestions.

- oldman

[Larry]

These are just my opinions so no one flip a squeak about it.


No bomber drones = no one flying bombers because they would be way to easy to kill.
Ack at 1.0 = more people running to ack when they think they are going to lose a fight.
Enemy icons at 3k = its already like that.
ENY and perks for rare planes = Id rather see those planes limited to just a number of bases.
AvA move to a different server = 100% agree

All of antivortex's ideas cant be done or enforced by staff.

AvA needs a name change = I wouldn't mind going back to 'Combat Theater'
2 week setups = IMO 2 weeks is just way to long. It may just be me but I like the one week setup because anything longer then that gets dull and boring.

Player self control = I really don't get what he is saying. Does he want us not to argue and agree with every idea anyone comes up with. Does he want us to play like if we doing something wrong we are going to get a time out? Or does he want us to control ourselves when we are around sheep? He would have to expand on what he means by self control.


IMO the first thing we really need to do is some how get HTC to move the AvA to a different server on Tuesdays. I for one and I know a few other people that don't even bother to go into the AvA on that day because there is a very good chance you wont have vox.

[captain1ma]

i agree with larry on everything except the sheep thing!!   

[Chilli]

Ack  Is there a way to increase soft guns and not auto ack?

Change name back to Combat Theater  Funny as simple as that seems, I bet it would bring in some new faces.  Or we could call it the "Contingency Operation Arena"  Sorry, Oldman .... that just slipped 

Planesets  How about featuring certain planes for two week period (or suitable period).  This will give folks time to "suit up" while still allowing for the maps to change.  Example:  Feature the P38 in maps that cover its major contributions throughout the war.

_{The most popular planes to draw folks I would think could be P38, Jug, Corsair, FW190, Bf109, N1k2, C205, Ki84.........etc.  I am not looking forward to a Me262 v Pony matchup but it might be interesting to see the attraction.} 

[XAKL]

From Dawger:
2-week setup runs, advertised far in advance, and broader plane sets

The weekly setup change has been a feature of AvA since The Beginning, although it has occasionally lapsed due to staff confusion or unavailability.  What do people think about longer runs as a policy?  Soda is now working very diligently to be able to advertise plans in advance.  There will be a consequent loss of flexibility, of course.  Thoughts?

As to the broader plane set, I'd like to hear more specific suggestions.



OM <<S>> This is Mungadai- mugadead, mugs, I was able to get my original cpid back. Sorry I haven't participated as much in AvA, and when I do get time, I tend to head to MA.  I've always supported broader plane set, to be accurate, all the plane set.   Vehicle hangers- all the vehicles respective to their country and C-47, maybe throw in a Piper Cub as a Forward Observer,  Small Hanger- Planes from 1939-1942, Medium Hanger-Planes from 1943-1944, and Large Hanger- All the Planes

Someone said that Allies would be at a disadvantaged because of Tiger Tanks and Jet Planes, so then why not limit those Crafts to Large Hangers only and set the perks like MA.

Change taking Airfields to taking an Entire town or Cities.  Load a town with 5 VH and 10X a current town.  Everything in Town has to be down and U need at least 50 troops to take it.  Buildings cannot regenerate for at least 24 hrs, but you can resupply to expedite repair immediately.


To Take a City would be a huge undertaking- there should be at least 25 VH 50X a current town, and at least 100 troops.

Map- Make the Map Smaller

Gotta go play Golf
But I would love to participate more

XAKL

[humble]

The real issue is and will continue to be player interaction in an arena with limited numbers and an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time). This is aggravated by the "total war" concept vs the older fight centric mentality. Instead of "good" game play being nurtured the reality is that it is muzzled by an uncontrollable subset that can and will continue to shape the arena to its own ends. Given the low numbers this "my sandbox, my rules" mentality will continue to shape the arena.

The minimal interest the community at large has for the format and the overall disdain that a large segment of seasoned players has for this faction has created the current status quo.

[Chilli]

Sometimes Humble, we may be saying the same thing but just quite differently.  Interaction of the players if I am understanding that you are saying, is related to the smaller number of participants and maybe the mindset of regulars needs to be tuned to nurturing "AvA noobs". 

Having said that I will still shoot you down if you are noobish, but make a suggestion on 200 as how to avoid my tactics.    This is what I have gotten from many of the AH players that have and still mentor me.  But if you come to the AvA to vulch softly acked airfields instead of testing flying skills against a historically matched equal, then you might just be in the "wrong" arena.  I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you (the Ava noob) would like to have a fair fight, but if you refuse then I will definitely point you to the exit sign. 

Now, flying wingman or even picking is a little different.  Here again, if you are aware of the disadvantage and are willing to participate (as I am most of the time), then you either gain some experience on SA or you get smacked down.  The bases are close and hopefully the numbers will soon allow for the odds to even or better switch in your favor.  Then maybe it will be the other players turn to raise his SA.

What I have described above is the only Arena mindset or unwritten rules that I am aware of.  If I am missing something, I need to be filled in, because honestly I just haven't seen it.

[TheBug]

The real issue is and will continue to be player interaction in an arena with limited numbers and an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time). This is aggravated by the "total war" concept vs the older fight centric mentality. Instead of "good" game play being nurtured the reality is that it is muzzled by an uncontrollable subset that can and will continue to shape the arena to its own ends. Given the low numbers this "my sandbox, my rules" mentality will continue to shape the arena.

The minimal interest the community at large has for the format and the overall disdain that a large segment of seasoned players has for this faction has created the current status quo.

I agree with this diagnosis but would have no clue as to a cure.    But do agree with OM that this is more a player issue than a staff issue.  But the current problem is caused by players "policing" the arena so I don't see how relying on the players, in this day and age, will ever generate a solution. 

Just my opinion of course.

[Panzzer]

Detune 200, fly as you want to. Bring your friends as well.

On the other points brought up, I agree with OM & Larry, changing those won't help the arena in the long run. When CT became AvA it had hundreds of players for the first nights, after that it settled down to the tens - I remember this well as it was one of my setups running when the name changed from CT to AvA... The first RPS sets had numbers above 100 also, but they soon dwindled too, I guess it is more enjoyable to most to just hang in the MA's.

As there aren't that many players in the arena now (if I've understood correctly, as I don't fly "prime time"), just take your squad there and fly against each other, have fun, that's what the arena is there for - it isn't just anyone's sandbox, it's for everyone to enjoy.

[detch01]

- Schedule AvA staff in to police the arena during semi-prime and prime-time hours and actually police it - eject disruptive players and those who've appointed themselves to the position of arena-cops. AvA Staff should be making the rules and enforcing them, not the players.
- Post a thread describing the current week's setup in the forum and sticky it so players don't have to hunt for the setup description. As each week's setup is posted, sticky it and unsticky the previous week's post.
- Switch the emphasis in setups from trying to please players or group wants to just trying to create a great game environment based on historical matchups (go back to the 2001-2003 philosophy for setups). 

[OM to Humble's reply]
Seems to me that this is what he has been saying all along.  I fully agree.  Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue.  We would love, simply love, to hear thoughts on this.

"Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue" Sorry OM, I strongly disagree. The AvA Staff should be setting the minimum acceptable behaviour in the arena by making use of the authority given to them by HTC. Anything less than that from the Staff is the acceptance of mob rule in the arena.
The AvA started going downhill when it was still called the CT, and it started on that path when the focus switched from providing a great game environment to attempting to please players and player groups. Those charged with actually leading the arena gave up the fight and decided to follow instead. Until you change that, nothing else will change. Tweaking the setups to allow/disallow things individuals like or don't like isn't going to change anything in the arena for the better. AvA Staff need to step up to the plate and actually lead the arena rather than administer it. If you over-step your authority I'm pretty sure HTC will let you know. And, unless HTC tells you you've overstepped, what individual players say about Staff decisions or actions is entirely irelevent.

my 0.02

asw

[captain1ma]

an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time).

imbalanced planeset?? lets see 109 v p51 ?? or 109 v spit?? how about 110 v p38?? seems to me the only imbalance is if you fly axis.

[Shifty]

I wish Hitech would just take the damn thing out of player's hands completely and run a different ETO followed by a PTO every week period. No debate, no input, no stroking the planeset because somebody doesn't like it, no complaints, just STFU and fly it or go to the Main Arena.

[Chilli]

LOL Shifty 

My ole pal.  See, that is how I like the conversation sometimes.  You know where you stand with Shifty.  I was just thinking along the line of "agree to disagree" and then move on. 

I do feel that changes that have come about because the popularity of the arena has dwindled and they most certainly are not the cause.  But for those who say otherwise, let's just agree to disagree.  The areas that we are discussing here are points that can be tweaked for the most part and in my opinion that is what HTC intends to continue doing with the game in general.

Even if I am not in agreement with some ideas, I would be pleased to try them if it meant that I would have somebody, anybody.... to fly against.  So     ........ +1 Oldman keeping it fresh, watchout some young chicks might start diggin' on you soon. 

[Shifty]

LOL Shifty 

My ole pal.  See, that is how I like the conversation sometimes.  You know where you stand with Shifty.  I was just thinking along the line of "agree to disagree" and then move on. 

I do feel that changes that have come about because the popularity of the arena has dwindled and they most certainly are not the cause.  But for those who say otherwise, let's just agree to disagree.  The areas that we are discussing here are points that can be tweaked for the most part and in my opinion that is what HTC intends to continue doing with the game in general.

Even if I am not in agreement with some ideas, I would be pleased to try them if it meant that I would have somebody, anybody.... to fly against.  So     ........ +1 Oldman keeping it fresh, watchout some young chicks might start diggin' on you soon. 

The whole AVA discussion is a monthly excersise in frustration. Every month the same questions are asked and every month nothing happens. How can it be that Special Events like FSO, Snap Shots, and Scenarios, can have a healthy following with their limited planesets and historical matchups, yet AVA cannot?

 One reason is the CMs in special events would not tolerate what's tolerated in the AVA. I agree with ASW if we're going to have an AVA staff they need to lead and enforce not bend not tolerate. Violation of setup rules, or behavior standards...  One warning only and you're gone for a week or two. Once back if you do it again you're gone for a couple of months. That goes for anybody and everybody friend, stranger, vet, or newbie. Put the health of the arena over the ego of the player.

Since people are thinking of name changes how about The WWII Arena. You set it up with the same FSO scenario and map and you run it for three weeks at a time. There are 500 plus people participating in FSOs now. I for one would love to have a place to go for the practice of tactics or just to see how my aircraft stacks up against the competetion. I know a few are going to say no it gets boring. These same people are the ones flying in here by themseleves because they've bored the hell out of everyone else over the years with their insistance you have to play their way. You guys should consider this and promote it to see if it flys. Get some of the FSO people in here and give them a place to practice and run strategies. You might end up getting a couple dozen converts if not more.

It's a shame that we have an empty arena where you have historical matchups in a sim based on WWII air combat. There's no excuse for it. This place has been a gorilla cage for way too long. The staff needs to take the bull by the horns or elect staff members that will or else ask HTC to take control.

[Panzzer]

The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.