Some ideas to discuss

[captain1ma]

i like it a 1.0

if its at 1.0 and all planes burn at 1.0 then the fuels states should be pretty even no matter what the flying time. just my opinion.

[BnZs]

2.0 fuel burn...not a terrible idea. I think the average desirable sortie length for most people playing casually outside of special events is going to be about 30 minutes, tops. Within that parameter at a 1.0 fuel burn a range advantage is virtually meaningless.

[BnZs]

Idea.

1. FSO is more popular than ever.

2. AvA is on the surface offers attractions similar to FSO, but is not more popular then ever.

3. Try to isolate whatever factor is causing the difference.

[715]

My (largely irrelevant) opinions:

Fuel burn rate of 2.0: not in favor, unless maps (like BoB) are actually half scale.  Want the option to be able to do historical like things. 

Name: how about "Historical Arena", HA, since historical matchups is the whole point.

Reasons I don't go to AvA more often:

1) Attitude.  Seems I get belittled for anything I do that doesn't lead to my immediate death.  (Examples: fly high, extend when outnumbered or outflown, actually enter a fight etc.)  AvA is apparently an exclusive club and outsiders are unwelcome.

2) My time in AvA is limited by its very raison d'etre, i.e. limited planesets.  There are tons of planes I don't want to fly.  I think AvA will always have far fewer people for this natural reason.

3) Chicken and egg.  There aren't many people in AvA because when they log on they see there aren't many people in AvA   It might help if the logon screen had some kind of tagline for AvA, i.e. "Historical (Battle of Britain)   37/200  47", as an advertisement.  Or maybe the logon screen should just lie about the number of people in AvA   "Historical (Battle of Britain)   199/200  12".

4) I stink.  AvA draws the best players.  If I fly there... I die often.  No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun.  It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting.   (Translation:  "Momma the mean man hurt me!  Momma: Then don't go there.")

[Masherbrum]

715, as long as you learn, while you get shot down is all that matters.   Just like anything in life, if you know you gave all you could, you didn't lose. 

[Larry]

4) I stink.  AvA draws the best players.  If I fly there... I die often.  No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun.  It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting.   (Translation:  "Momma the mean man hurt me!  Momma: Then don't go there.")

This can be avoided by asking those players what they would do or what you did wrong to get yourself killed. I'm betting they will take you under their wing and try to teach you to the best of their ability. Hell Iv even seen that mean 'ol storch do this many times.


Most people don't understand the AvAs history. For what ever reason numbers died off years ago and there was just a hand full of us there trying our hardest to keep it alive so HTC wouldn't just delete it alltogether. During this time those people grew to know how the others liked to fight. Those you can see were our 'unwritten rules'. Just to name a few when we saw someone rolling from a field we didn't just zoom in for the easy kill. We let that person up to make the fight more fair and fun, for both parties. On some occasions we let others go land when they had a pilot wound or were missing big parts. This went on for years. We flew like 'duels' because everyone knows dieing over and over when you don't have a chance to even get speed up isn't fun. Then when people come in and climb to 15k and play like they don't get another plane it ticked some of us off. We thought where do they get off coming in here and flying like that. It was wrong but at the same time they were a little wrong themselves. They came in and flew how they were used to flying in other arenas. They flew how they wanted, which is right, but at the same time they were disrespecting those that built and shaped the arena. If you just come into the arena and start saying 'it my $15' and disrespecting how we play then you will get that same attitude back. That's where this whole 'mean arena' comes from. Like I said we have been the only people in that arena for years. Show us some respect by not doing anything you wouldn't want done to you and I don't see any reason you would be bashed or 'ran' out of the arena.


Over the years Iv said I don't want more people in the arena. That's true and untrue at the same time. I like the AvA because its been my home in AH since around '03. But for the most part its been a place where when I was in a fight I didn't have to worry about that other enemy over head jumping in just to get a kill, or the guy I was fighting running to ack because he didn't want to mess his score up. I know when you get 20+ people in the arena without an objective like a mission or squad night that it just turns into a mini MA. Also when you get more numbers you draw in those 'tards' that get off on ruining others fun by proking dar and ord, or milkrunning bases at 3am so you have to wait for a staff member to reset the arena.


What I'm trying to say is I don't see why we all cant get along. If you don't like getting trash talked then try to see where those people are coming from. Ask before jumping into a 1v1. When you see someone heading home all messed up leave him be and wait for the next guy to up. If you think the guy is going over with the trash talk record it, report his chat, and send it into HTC. If you don't want to take it that far theres always .squelch 'butthole'. Remember fly and fight like you would want to be treated.


Okay I'm gonna go take a nap after that one. 

[PFactorDave]

1) Attitude.  Seems I get belittled for anything I do that doesn't lead to my immediate death.  (Examples: fly high, extend when outnumbered or outflown, actually enter a fight etc.)  AvA is apparently an exclusive club and outsiders are unwelcome.

4) I stink.  AvA draws the best players.  If I fly there... I die often.  No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun.  It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting.   (Translation:  "Momma the mean man hurt me!  Momma: Then don't go there.")

These are the things that would keep me out of AvA.  You expect that crap in the main arenas, but in a much much smaller community of players a little courtesy goes a long way.  It always astounds me when folks in the under used arenas purposely work to drive new folks away rather then welcome them in and teach them that the game can be fun without being a total tool to everyone on the other side.

[Guppy35]

imbalanced planeset?? lets see 109 v p51 ?? or 109 v spit?? how about 110 v p38?? seems to me the only imbalance is if you fly axis.

Haven't visited AvA in a while, but this comment in itself speaks volumes as to part of the problem.

[Guppy35]

As far as experience and suggestions go... Make fuel burn 2.0.

Too many times you find folks commenting like "109E vs hurr1! A real knife-edge fight!" -- only if the 109E has 10% fuel onboard. Only if you took off with nothing in the tanks, still have enough to climb to 20k, cruise around for half an hour, and engage an anemy with no fuel weight whatsoever.

Many times (over the years) folks took great pride in the AvA for outflying plane "X" in plane "Y" -- but only because they milk the performance factor with no fuel onboard.

Try the same in a 109E with 75% fuel vs a hurr1 with 75%, and it's not so close a fight, tellyawhut.

I believe the comments about the P-38 may be similar situations. It's a fine plane, but unless it's on fumes, a number of IJN/IJA planes can give it a heart attack in short order.

Which 38 you been flying cause you are incorrect?  Fighting Japanese birds is what it's all about for a Headhunter 38   I love fighting N1Ks in particular.

And why you picking on the 109E?  My favorite 109.  Great fun to tangle with Spit 16s in it in the MA.  They don't think it can turn   As for fighting a Hurri I, I'd take the 109E every time as it can control the fight.  Unless the 109E driver gets suckered into a slow turning fight, then he deserves to get shot.

[Dawger]

What do others think about this?

- oldman

Fuel burn should be as close to the fuel burns in reality as possible in any arena remotely concerned with history. That's what I think.

[Oldman731]

Fuel burn should be as close to the fuel burns in reality as possible in any arena remotely concerned with history. That's what I think.

Then I think the 1.0 rate is proper.  HTC raised it to 2.0 in the MAs quite awhile ago for reasons not connected to historical accuracy.

My thought was that raising it to 2.0 might make it easier for MA people to transition to the AvA, and vice versa.

- oldman

[Easyscor]

Dawger, Oldman...

Fuel burn is an interesting subject that belongs in the same realm as historical radar settings. Each of our terrains is scaled so that special events can run in the time allotted because no one wants to devote eight hours to fly from Duxford to their targets and back in a game, for example.

I like the 1.0 fuel burn in the AvA, but to be accurate for an event, you would need to find the scale of the terrain and scale the fuel burn accordingly. Be warned though, some rides with short legs might not get into the long range missions the way they do now.

[715]

The other aspect to remember regarding fuel burn rate is that even if the terrain is half scale the vertical axis is full scale, ie it still takes a lot of fuel to climb out.  So a half scale terrain and fuel burn rate of 2.0 is not equal to a full scale terrain with fuel burn rate of 1.0.

[Easyscor]

Good point, I neglected that.

[Larry]

Also you have to remember that back in the war they didn't just roll and fly right to the enemy. They rolled, climbed out, formed up, then flew in the direction of the enemy. By the time they actually got into a fight they weren't flying will all that fuel. In BoB the German fighters had very little time to fight before they had to turn back.

So in a BoB setup its just as historical to up 25-50% and flying right to England, then it is to up 100% and climb to alt and fly around for 30mins then start heading over the channel.