La-5FN drivers: observations on e-fighting and the niki

[Dingy]

 

The reason I say this is because, this G drop in shell projectile appears to me to be much less in the P-51 or the Spitfire.

BINGO!!  This is exactly why I noticed this phenomena in the La5.  I got my feet wet in AH flying the Mustang and Spit and found that it was not that difficult to hit a plane which begins its break turn just as Im lining up the shot.  I could pull into the same plane of motion as the enemy, move from lag pursuit into lead pursuit and usually get a good solid hit.  I could actually see how I needed to correct aim.  This doesnt seem to be the case with the La5 since with the same lineup and G-load, the shells seem to trail behind the enemy.  This was the artifact I was referring to.

-Ding

[Minotaur]

Leonid;

   

I remember reading somewhere that 20mm generally were optimum within 200m

Thanks for your reply...

If I am not terribly mistaken this is around 600yds.

But, your other comments make sense, because the N1K2 only has 20mm.

Juzz;

   

Minotaur; what convergence setting do you have the guns set to?

Thanks for your reply...

I set my convergence for 325yds, all guns. I consider optimum lethality long distance shots to be in the range d275 to d375.  I seldom take a shot longer than d375, except for when I jump on a BUFF's head.  

For high to medium G turns I am not hitting anything at much over d50.

Juzz, Is this correct on my part?
 

Minotaur: I had thought, that the projectile is actually not effected by the G load of the plane. It flies its normal trajectory, based on where the muzzle was pointed at the time of firing. The illusion of projectile G drop is from the plane moving away from this line of trajectory. Is this correct?

More confused than ever.    

I might try setting my convergence to 150, maybe a "Shotgun" effect might work out better.  Thanks again!

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 01-19-2000).]

[juzz]

200 metres = ~220 yards.

It makes sense to set the convergence to the distance you take most of your shots at. Try setting the inner pair slightly less(25-50 yards) than the outer pair to produce a "pattern" convergence rather than the "point" convergence you're using now. That should produce a "shotgun" effect at the point of convergence, and might help you to score more hits if your gunnery isn't very good, since you can miss a little and still get hits.  

Your thoughts on bullet drop is basically correct. I do recall however hearing from somewhere that G load does have an effect on the bullets path, but I think it's fairly minimal at least for short ranges. It might not even be modelled in AH gunnery anyway.

I think the La-5FN issue is exactly like Leonid said:

Maybe something to consider is the actual nose layout of the La-5FN. On top of the nose is the intake for the oil cooler, which cuts off a fair amount of your gunsight view. This inlet makes shots under G's difficult, and in fact was complained about by VVS pilots.

The Spitfire and Mustang have their guns mounted in the wings, and the wings on aircraft tend to point slightly above the direction the aircraft is flying, so these guns are pointing "up" into the gunsight.

The La-5FN has it's guns in the nose, shooting at the same level as the flight path, so you have to "look down" at the bullets path through the gunsight, which means they drop under the nose very quickly when you shoot and turn.

I remember in that "first film" you posted Leonid; that you shoot down a Bf109 with a short burst when it disappears "under the nose" at short range, the exact same gunnery tactic used by H.J. Marseille.  

[Minotaur]

 

Juzz: 200 metres = ~220 yards.

Oopsie... I could try 600ft maybe!  

If the 20mm has on an effective range of d220, this indeed settles some very confusing issues for me.

I am hoping once the to game goes "Pay for Play", we will get numbers that apply in this fashion.

Thanks again.  

Mino

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Yes, we have gone over the nose convergence argument and the high nose discussion before. The problem is that the 190, .205 and 109 do not suffer the same amount as the La5. In a banking turn with around 4G you can see your shells in an La5 drop rapidly after D 200-250. How do I know this? Set your convergence to lower settings and do the turn. At C 200 the shells converge about 10mm under my gunsight. at 275 they are converging UNDER my hood. Thats drop pure and simple. The spit, .205 do not suffer from this too any extent, I can pull 4-6 G and still hit things in my sight in either.
  The 190 and 109 get MORE interesting. Both have roughly the same shell as the La5 but both can accuratly shoot at 4 G. And both are roughly the same setup as La5. So my question is why the difference between these planes guns?

------------------
If your in range, so is the enemy.

[fats]

--- Minotaur: ---
The tracers seem to move right through the target, but nothing happens. Since no one else has brought this up, I am pretty sure that it is my gunnery and not the game
--- end ---

It might very well be the game. In WB the tracers were drawn over everything else, minus your cockpit. So you could see tracers fly 'over' the enemy when they were really way behind him in 'Z axis'. Perhaps there could be similar thing going on with AH?


//fats