Refresh my memory. Why does Hitech not want to add the A-26?

[Wolfala]

Well, the A-20 was a bomber, and was also given the designation of P-70 and flown like a really big fighter....remind me why we shouldn't use it in its historical role?

Fly without bombs and 50% at around 10k, you do fine. Mensa and I had a nice meeting A20 vs 38J - we both died - though he took longer to fall to the ground. You can man handle the 20 - and yea, despite hoing everything in sight like the Spit16s, it'll make life very difficult for every plane in the set if you don't have somewhat competent SA.

[Oldman731]

Well, the A-20 was a bomber, and was also given the designation of P-70 and flown like a really big fighter....remind me why we shouldn't use it in its historical role?

P-70 was a nightfigher - same as the Mosquito variant, the Beaufighter variant, the Ju-88 variant, and probably other bombers-become-nightfighers.  That's hardly being flown like a really big fighter.  You can do it in AH, and it's fun, but it isn't something done in WWII.

Plus:  so far as I know, there was never an A26 nightfighter version.

- oldman

[Rich46yo]

True enough Rich. On the P-39's uselessness - I wouldn't go there. About a week ago +Precision got around 15 39Q's up to around 12 or 13k. Myself and another guy in P-38s vs them. It didn't end well for us - but hey, it was nice to see them being used even though they got attritted by Spit16s 5 minutes later!

Dont mind my style, or take it to serious. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just dont take attachments to cartoon airplanes in computer games to seriously. In fact its kinda silly for adults to get all worked up over a shot to their cartoon favorite.

I also remember things. I remember all these people getting worked up over the P-39 and how we need it. And the real funny thing is its not even that popular in EWA or MWA. I agree about its usefullness in scenerios. The aircraft did have a large footprint in the war.

But....but...we get so few new airplanes modeled into this game now and to see guys asking for IAR-80s, Boomerangs, Brewsters.....ect Well its a free country and folks can wish for what they want. I agree it would be a better game if we occasionaly saw something in the MA air else besides P-51s, 190s, LA-7s, Nikis, Typhoons, and Spit-16s. But there you have it. Thats the LWA reality were faced with and I just hope anything they introduce will be capable enough to have a LWA chance. So long to this thread.

[Hajo]

Rich.....I'm glad you fly bombers.  If that makes you happy believe it or not I am also pleased. 

The more happier the more fun everyone has.  We have to few dedicated bomber Pilots in the game.

What I would suggest sometime is to get online....advertise your squad who flies bombers is going

to put up a mission.  You would like escorts.  You will get a response from the bomber pilots and the

fighter pilots.  ThunderEgg does this a great deal on the Bishop side and we have a hoot.  Might be

a long mission but it does add some authenticity to the MA.

The A26 invader was a great aircraft....it served during the Viet Nam war also.  One of the best if not

the best attack aircraft of WWII.

[Ack-Ack]

Well, the A-20 was a bomber, and was also given the designation of P-70 and flown like a really big fighter....remind me why we shouldn't use it in its historical role?

No, the P-70 was not flown around like a 'really big fighter', in fact, the P-70 was not successful at all as a night fighter.  P-70s are credited with only 2 kills the entire war.  The P-70 would be directed to the target by ground radar operators and then when close enough to the target, the onboard radar operator would then vector the plane to the target, in hopes the P-70 would be able to sneak up on the target and shoot it down, it would be rare if ACM maneuvering was used and they were never flown like a fighter.

Since you're claiming 'historical role' name one USAAF outfit that used the A-26 as a fighter (like some use the A-20 in game) or in the night fighter roll?  The historical role of the A-26 was that of a medium/attack aircraft and any air to air engagement were the result of them trying to fight off attacking fighters as opposed to looking for a dogfight.  So, in that light, using the A-26 as a fighter would not have been a role it was historically used in.

Oldman hit it spot in with this comment.

I may be wrong (but I think not!) in suspecting that the people who want the A26 are not people who really want another medium bomber.  I perceive that the A26 proponents are really people who want to fly a bomber like a fighter.  That's fine and a fun thing to do, but it doesn't have a lot to do with WWII. 

- oldman

As others have pointed out, there are far more planes that we need, especially in the early to mid war time line.  These two time periods have sorely been neglected in favor of 'late war' birds.


ack-ack

[Karnak]

P-70 was a nightfigher - same as the Mosquito variant, the Beaufighter variant, the Ju-88 variant, and probably other bombers-become-nightfighers.  That's hardly being flown like a really big fighter.  You can do it in AH, and it's fun, but it isn't something done in WWII.

Plus:  so far as I know, there was never an A26 nightfighter version.

- oldman

Well, Mosquito VIs like we have in AH were flown as long range escort fighters during daylight at times.

[Oldman731]

Well, Mosquito VIs like we have in AH were flown as long range escort fighters during daylight at times.

Very true.  So there's historical justification for including the Mossie as we have it in AH2.  You won't find A26s flying as long range escorts in any war, though.

- oldman

[Guppy35]

If you read my post then you must have noticed I wasnt criticizing the folks at AH. I was criticizing the players who were screaming for the P-39, "probably none of whom now fly it". And if their littles feelings are hurt then "gee" I'm sorry.

I dont even think the P-39 is that awful an airplane. We just needed a lot of others more. As in "ones people actually would use". It just seems like the entire P-39 thing grew and grew with the very few who really wanted it and the legions of sycophants who just wanted to fit in. I said a few things against it and got leaped on by the drones who ended up never even flying the thing. Or, flew it once after looking rearward.

Larry I do fly in the SEA. Not as much as I like cause I have to get up so early. But Kudos to all of you who put up those special events. You do a great job. My time however, and time frames, are somewhat limited and I prefer to spend them in the MA with my squad, "as I suppose most of you do too". And as grand as the events are they only make up a small part of actual playing time in the game here. Lets face reality.

I'm not even saying we shouldn't get early to mid war planes, "I spend most of my time in a 240 mph bomber", and would love to see them all in. That and I appreciate the other things that upgrades brought, "T-34, WS, IL-2"....ect But we still need another perk bomber, uber or not, before we need another 1939 spitfire in the IAR-80, or some other airplane 95% of the player base would never ever fly. "Uber" is relative anyways, and there are plenty of airplanes that would ruin the A-26s day. Including some high eny ones.

Besides its already been proven "uber-ness" is controlled by eny and perk price. Lets face it, even the mighty 262 isnt much of a concern in the MAs so why would the 26s be?

I'll go on to add we only have one representative of a CV base plane for one of the greatest seapowers of all time. I'll bet a Brit CV based striker like the http://www.warbirdalley.com/firefly.htm would get a ton of use in the MAs. AND fill a hole in plane sets.

Anyway go ahead and disagree. Its your right as much as mine and I'll respect your opinion even if I dont agree with it.

You ever flown the 39 or 25 in the MA?  Dogfighting in both can be good fun.  The 39Q in particular can do just fine in the MA.  I take the solid nose B25C strafer when the fun police kill the FH's and go into the fight with that.  Great fun.  You ever gone tank hunting in a 39?  That tricycle landing gear lets you sneak up on em from behind and shoot em with the 37mm

Because many of the folks looking for new birds are looking at it for more then just MA use, they ask for things that will fill Scenario, AvA, FSO etc options.  The 26 was very limited in its historical use to essentially October 44-May 45 by a couple of groups in the 9th AF in the ETO.  In that regard it doesn't fill much of an overall need for AH beyond giving the MA latewar guys another latest and greatest.

As folks have pointed out, there are glaring holes in the historical planes sets that in my opinion would need to be filled long before an A26.

[Ack-Ack]

You ever flown the 39 or 25 in the MA?  Dogfighting in both can be good fun.  The 39Q in particular can do just fine in the MA.  I take the solid nose B25C strafer when the fun police kill the FH's and go into the fight with that.  Great fun.  You ever gone tank hunting in a 39?  That tricycle landing gear lets you sneak up on em from behind and shoot em with the 37mm

Because many of the folks looking for new birds are looking at it for more then just MA use, they ask for things that will fill Scenario, AvA, FSO etc options.  The 26 was very limited in its historical use to essentially October 44-May 45 by a couple of groups in the 9th AF in the ETO.  In that regard it doesn't fill much of an overall need for AH beyond giving the MA latewar guys another latest and greatest.

How does the B-25C compare to the H in terms of maneuvering?  The H moves around like a pregnant hippo, only chance in a dogfight is if I can get an angle on the first turn, otherwise the heavy nose makes it really tough to swing the plane around.

As folks have pointed out, there are glaring holes in the historical planes sets that in my opinion would need to be filled long before an A26.

I've come to the conclusion that there are two types of players, those that are like you and me and play for the historical aspects of the game and those that just see this as a game and nothing more.  Those of us that play for the historical aspects want to see a more rounded plane set and those that play just for the game aspect want to have the fastest plane with the biggest guns.  They could care less what plane it is, as long as it's fast and has big guns.

I have some hope though, with the teasers of the Brewster and the oft hinted at rumor of the Beaufighter, looks like sense might be winning out this time.


ack-ack

[1pLUs44]

I dont even think the P-39 is that awful an airplane. We just needed a lot of others more. As in "ones people actually would use". It just seems like the entire P-39 thing grew and grew with the very few who really wanted it and the legions of sycophants who just wanted to fit in. I said a few things against it and got leaped on by the drones who ended up never even flying the thing. Or, flew it once after looking rearward.

I have a hunch, that was just me, being annoying, posting about it over and over. 

[Sakai]

I may be wrong (but I think not!) in suspecting that the people who want the A26 are not people who really want another medium bomber.  I perceive that the A26 proponents are really people who want to fly a bomber like a fighter.  That's fine and a fun thing to do, but it doesn't have a lot to do with WWII.  From the historical perspective (mine!) there are lots more planes we need in early- and mid-war, not to mention Japanese and Russian fronts at all times, as Hajo points out.

- oldman

The A-20 does everything it would do, just not quite as admirably.  It was a vultcher's dream in AW with that enormous ammo load out and concentrated fire in the nose.  You should have a choice of 6 or 8 gun noses.  Six guns with about 650 rpg would be strafing hell for the recipient.  It was a base porker's delight in AW, it would be a preferred ride for base desruction in AH.  It's a land grabber's delight.

There are 20 AC needed to flesh out the historicity of the early to midwar planeset first though.  I mean, I know I am odd but I'd have an Il-4,  Wellington, and an SM 79 well before an A-26. 

[Sakai]

I know he has those reasons.  But I cant remember what they are....

Anyone able to refresh my memory?

My take about 3-4 years ago on these boards:

Absolutely, but few have the precsie corrollary of the A-26/A-20.

The Allied bombing issue is more complex than say, German or English fighters or Japanese or Italian Planes. 

American production was insane and we made many, many planes of various types that flew and engaged in combat.  By contrast, the important planes of the luftwaffe are far, far fewer in model types and only really come into play as variants.   The Luftwobblers amongst us have to have the various iterations of the 190s and 109s or there is not an interesting enough plane set to keep them here.  The Allies had sooooo many aircraft they can model, why model the A-26 when TOD is the next big whammy?  If the 8th AF campaign is the gig, the 109 and 190 variants and American heavies were the thing to concentrate on.  Heck, in such a planeset new skins and configurations for the B-17 are vastly more important than is the A-26.

Why not concentrate on early war aircraft now so we can wage a true rolling planeset?  Because, as in hunting rifles, we need more magnums, faster is always better!!!!!

By all means, make the A-26, but only after the rolling planeset with early war horses is completed.  Toward that end, the most important medium bombers to make would be what?  An He-111?  The SM-79? A Maryland?  A Wellington?  A Do-17?  For the Yanks, it has to be the B-25[since post now flying, wtg HiTech]. 

I love the A-26!  It's a fantastic plane, but it's really just an A-20 on steroids and I don't think the performance difference is as great as say that between the F4F and the F6F is it?  Perhaps it is, but interms of importance to the war the A-26/A-20 comparison is no F6F/F4F comparison.  But if the rolling planset is desired for immersion, we need earliest craft.  Let's get it after we have the early war fleshed out because for 3+ years the A-20 was the best attacker we made and for 4-6 months it was the A-26.

Joe Baugher's site notes the max speed difference between the A-20G and A-26C as about 20 MPH--not enough to worry about, extra 2k ordinance which is sweet. 

Sakai

[Nemisis]

I what I found while researching this plane is correct along with my inferences, then this plane will be in between the B26 which is a medium bomber with forward firing pilot operated guns and is maneuverable for a bomber, and the A20-G which is a cross between the Bf 110 and the P47; carries a respectable bombload, and is insanely maneuverable for a bomber. It seems like it would be a good idea, I personly would fly it as I mostly fly the B26 or the A20G.

[Shifty]

Funny I ran across this thread. Below is a pic I took last Saturday at the Cavanaugh Meseum of Flight in Addison Texas.
Maybe the question Why does Hitech not want to add the A-26? can be found on the nose of this aircraft. 

[fudgums]

G3M and G4M. Nuff said