CV vs Level Bombers

[Brooke]

Moving the cv doesn't work against an experienced bomber pilot at 8k altitude.  Not to brag, but I'll kill the cv every time at that alt regardless if they move it or not. 

Out of curiosity, how is your success rate at 8k alt against the CV on this map (just S of the airfield on the island)?

http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/torpedoBombing/brooke1.zip

[Guppy35]

Can anyone give me an actual WWII statistic on the effectiveness of level bombers vs CV's??  I can't seem to recall a single CV lost to level bombers, yet in AH the SOP to take down the carrier is to launch a set of Lancs, B-17s, B-24's, etc etc.

314 bombs dropped by Midway B17s during the battle.  Two B17s lost during the battle time frame.  One near miss, and they forced a US Submarine, the Grayling to have to crash dive.  5 minutes before the SBDs destroyed Kaka, Akagi and Soryu, B17s dropped 112  bombs with no hits.  Needless to say, the SBD's were a bit more successful.

Info from "Fortress against the Sun" by Gene Salacker

[Boxboy]

I am sorry if I gored your ox Dale, and it's YOUR prespective what the OP (me) had on his mind, or what he knew or didn't know about how and why level bombers didn't do well vs aircraft carriers.

My obsevations come from playing the game, you are the author of said game and have total control on content and how things are done.

As far as "realisim" is concerned you seem upset that the facts are there for anyone to read?  My original question still stands and BTW any bomber that has "dive brakes" like the JU88 doesn't qualify as a level bomber.

I am not changing how anyone plays or what the owner of the game does by asking the question, but if the post had the effect of you changing puffy ack great it had some merit.  The facts are that high level bombers are used in AH to neuteralize a task force, I didn't make that happen, people who play figured out the best equipment to get the job done in the game JUST like real life.

[thndregg]

Moving the cv doesn't work against an experienced bomber pilot at 8k altitude.

Usually I agree to that. There are rare occasions that whoever is steering the CV really tightens the turns and throws me off. Most times I hit it right on.

[whels]

Idea to help with level bombers vs Ships.

Did B17s Lancs and such level bombers use AP bombs or did they only
use GPs?  If they used only GPs then make it require alot of GP hits to
sink a CV or Cruiser ( a moving Capital ship was never sank with level
bombers in WW2, much less a Fleet CV). 

We need AP/Anti-ship bombs. only allow planes that attacked ships to use them.
Make the Kates,Nates, TBMs and such worth while to use.  8 AP bombs
CV dies like now.  If level buffs did use APs but rarely, them makem pay
a perk per bomb, and have to rtb atleast 1 plane to get price back.

someone mentioned  give the fleets more CVs. Id say 2 CV fleets, since the CV is really
a mobile FH/BH/VH.  2 CVs would be like a small field with 2 FHs/BHs.

[CAP1]

Usually I agree to that. There are rare occasions that whoever is steering the CV really tightens the turns and throws me off. Most times I hit it right on.

really,. even from 8k, if someone is in the tower and watching, and ready.......has the turn already planned,,,,soonz you hear eggs in the air, click submit, and they miss. i've done it to a few....and had it done to me tool.

[LLogann]

But now we have to model a difference between AP and HE bombs.  CV dies just the same with 8 1000lbs.

2 CV's would be a good idea!!! BIG +1 on that!!!

Idea to help with level bombers vs Ships.

We need AP/Anti-ship bombs. only allow planes that attacked ships to use them.
Make the Kates,Nates, TBMs and such worth while to use.  8 AP bombs
CV dies like now. 

someone mentioned  give the fleets more CVs. Id say 2 CV fleets, since the CV is really
a mobile FH/BH/VH.  2 CVs would be like a small field with 2 FHs/BHs.

[whels]

But now we have to model a difference between AP and HE bombs.  CV dies just the same with 8 1000lbs.

2 CV's would be a good idea!!! BIG +1 on that!!!

he has different damage modeled with different bullets. Bomb damage diff wouldnt be different
to be done.

[waystin2]

someone mentioned  give the fleets more CVs. Id say 2 CV fleets, since the CV is really
a mobile FH/BH/VH.  2 CVs would be like a small field with 2 FHs/BHs.

I like this idea.  I suggest moving it to the wishlist Sir.

[LLogann]

True, that's the easy part.  But buildings would need to be updated based on the bomb.  Town building = 250 HE and 500 AP   CV = 8000 AP and 10,000 HE.  That would be the more time consuming fix.  I'm all for this though.  I failed to mention that a moment ago. 

he has different damage modeled with different bullets. Bomb damage diff wouldnt be different
to be done.

waystin2 is right, we should double this up in Wishlist.

[whels]

oh and someone would say how would you work out if the main CV is sunk, how would we takeoff.

Well  2 H buttons, H1 (Flag CV) H2( 2nd CV). If both are up, either button works( kinda like taking off
a field with north or south runway option). If either CV is down, the H button to that CV runway
would be greyed out.

[hitech]

Boxboy: I just get really tired of people trying to justify their desire with "Selective Realism", and then claiming we do not wish to have realism because we do not agree with their desire.


HiTech

[angels10]

I have sank as many 60 cvs in one tour and yes 7500-8k salvo 14, delay.05 are the key settings I use.
 
 The key to saving a cv is to wait till you here the bombs falling before you turn the group or keep a friendly cap over cv when in harms way. 

[LYNX]

 
2. I may consider changing CV Puffy ack to be more accurate at low level bombers , and shoot below 3k for buffs only.

HiTech

Not knowing how coading works would the following* be possible in the interest of fairness or would it be to impossible.

* Puff ack lethality 100% accurate from zero ft to 150ft altitude to a range of 1.5K radius of the cv. 
75% lethality 150ft to 3k ft to a range of 3k radius
50% lethality 3k to 8K out to 5.5K of cv radius
As is for anything above 8k

These just being example figures only.  I say in fairness because of torp runs and those patient enough to get altitude.  Yes...I hate suicide bombers my thinking being their strived pixel detonation should be bestowed upon  them sooner rather than later 

Edit :-  On second thoughts 100% leathality on any bomber not carrying a torp zero ft to 10K ft 

Edit edit :- 100 leathality on any bomber with torps and bombs   

[Patches1]

In WarBirds, before the CV could be sunk, all escort ships had to first be sunk. This leaves the CV fully vulnerable after escorts are gone. I don't know if this is possible, but here are some thoughts along those lines:

CV currently takes 8K ords to sink and I think it takes 2K ords to sink an escort, or a Cruiser.

So, if we had 8 escorts, including Crusiers, and we sunk 1 escort, or Cruiser in the CV Fleet, then we could reduce the CV's ability to repair itself by 1K. The CV hardness would still be 8K when all escorts and Cruisers are sunk, but, it can no longer repair itself after all of the escorts and Cruisers are sunk. This makes the CV impervious to any attack by Bombers, or Dive bombers, until the escorts and Cruisers are sunk.

The one exception to this would be by Torpedo attack. If Torpedo carrying Aircraft, or PT Boats, can get inside of the escort/Cruiser defensive ring, then two torpedos could sink the CV even if all of the escorts/Cruisers are still up and the only defensive Ack firing would be from the CV.

Just some thoughts...

<S>  Semper Fidelis