Whats the maximum gun range sirs?

[moot]

Speed is the factor. Bullets disappear after travelling a certain distance. The faster you go, the shorter the bullets will travel away from you before disappearing.

[uptown]

If you have to ask what the range of your guns are...........YOU'RE TOO FAR AWAY!

[Steve]

LOL!!! Yes you guys are all right, but like I said, "anything is possible, but not very probable" meaning yes you can hit effectively with 50's at 800.....IF you have an aim like Steve, not many do. The same goes for field guns, I've known a number of people who took out bombers 4k out, but most people done have that aim/luck.

I was just pointing out the the general areas in which the OP can expect to hit hard/well enough.

    

[Demetrious]

OP: Not all guns are equal, even in a given caliber. Different nations used different models of cannon, and AH reflects this. Here are a few quick and dirty rules from what to expect from your guns:

1. Any American plane with .50 cals has a very good reach, if you're very lucky you can hit targets at 600-800, but even with your convergence set to 600 yards, the bullet spread and loss of energy with distance will make an outright kill unlikely. Unless you're shooting at something that's basically a gas tank with wings- like the Zero.

2. American and British 20mm guns are modeling the Hispano cannon, which has/had a similar muzzle velocity to the .50 cal, and only slightly inferior performance at longer distances. Treat the 20mms on American and British planes like .50 cal brownings. (Whenever you fly a P-38, this means both your machine guns and cannons need the same amount of lead, so you can feel free to unload both at the same time.)

3. Everybody else's guns are a crap-shoot, both their machine guns and their cannons. A quick breakdown:

3A. German machine guns: 8mm guns in the early Bf-109s have crappy ballistics and range, comparable to British 303s. Later model Bf-109s with 13mm guns are substantially better, but these guns are not comparable to Brownings.

3B. German cannons: German 20mm cannons are not as good as Hispanos, but not too bad, either. You can get decent accurate range from them, but don't push it. Early German 30mm cannons suck- the only plane in AH with that one, IIRC, is the Bf-109G "Gustav," with the single 30mm in the prob hub. There's a reason they called it the "melon launcher," that's exactly what the projectile feels like as it languidly arcs towards the target. Late-war German 30mm cannons shoot a lot like Hispanos, they are the BFG-9000 of AH. This is why you don't get in front of an Me-262.

3C. Japanese weapons: Japanese machine guns are generally equivalent to German guns- the 7.7s are hopeless, and the 13mm guns on the late-model Zeros and the Ki-84 are better, but don't compare to Brownings (in my limited experience.) Cannons- Japanese cannons have horribad range and ballistics, it's like throwing softballs. They have a great rate of fire but very little ammo, so save it for the kill and don't try long-range snapshots like you might with Hispanos. Late-war Japanese cannons- I don't know. I think it's the same, but they might be better.

3D. Russians: Russian machine guns actually are better then Brownings. The UB has a better rate of fire AND has nice ballistics, good guns. Russian 20mms (like in the Il-2, as if anybody ever flew that,) are rumored to be great. Historically they weren't quite as good ballistically as the Hispano but were close. I don't know much about russkie birds, so ask somebody else about that. I do know that the La-7 (which seems to be the most popular Russian ride in the MA) uses 30mm cannons, and that their ballistics are rather weak just like Japanese cannons, so treat them accordingly- the point-blank Win button.

Some of this is informed more by my knowledge of historical data which doesn't exactly correspond to AH modeling, so take it with a grain of salt, and if anybody calls me a retard, they'll probably be right.

[moot]

There's only one German 30mm, it's the MK108.  It's on the 190A8, 110G2, 109s G14 and K4, on the Me163 and Me262, and on the Ta152.  It has only one kind of trajectory - the melon one.

[Demetrious]

There's only one German 30mm, it's the MK108.  It's on the 190A8, 110G2, 109s G14 and K4, on the Me163 and Me262, and on the Ta152.  It has only one kind of trajectory - the melon one.

... wut.

The reference to the late-war 30mm with good ballistics I remember must have been referring to a new cannon never fielded, then.

Like I said- I can be retarded. 

[moot]

MK103 is probably what you're thinking of.  It'll show up on the Me410 when we get it.  The Me262 had a gun package with it, but it looks kinda special.  There were other 30mm cannons like the MK101 and MG213, but those definitely aren't coming to the game.

[Demetrious]

MK103 is probably what you're thinking of.  It'll show up on the Me410 when we get it.  The Me262 had a gun package with it, but it looks kinda special.  There were other 30mm cannons like the MK101 and MG213, but those definitely aren't coming to the game.

That must be it. The references were to late-war 30mms in a bomber-destroying roll (which is, in a word, the Me-410,) but for some reason I thought they were installed in the Me-262 as well.

[Cajunn]

OP: Not all guns are equal, even in a given caliber. Different nations used different models of cannon, and AH reflects this. Here are a few quick and dirty rules from what to expect from your guns:

1. Any American plane with .50 cals has a very good reach, if you're very lucky you can hit targets at 600-800, but even with your convergence set to 600 yards, the bullet spread and loss of energy with distance will make an outright kill unlikely. Unless you're shooting at something that's basically a gas tank with wings- like the Zero.

2. American and British 20mm guns are modeling the Hispano cannon, which has/had a similar muzzle velocity to the .50 cal, and only slightly inferior performance at longer distances. Treat the 20mms on American and British planes like .50 cal brownings. (Whenever you fly a P-38, this means both your machine guns and cannons need the same amount of lead, so you can feel free to unload both at the same time.)

3. Everybody else's guns are a crap-shoot, both their machine guns and their cannons. A quick breakdown:

3A. German machine guns: 8mm guns in the early Bf-109s have crappy ballistics and range, comparable to British 303s. Later model Bf-109s with 13mm guns are substantially better, but these guns are not comparable to Brownings.

3B. German cannons: German 20mm cannons are not as good as Hispanos, but not too bad, either. You can get decent accurate range from them, but don't push it. Early German 30mm cannons suck- the only plane in AH with that one, IIRC, is the Bf-109G "Gustav," with the single 30mm in the prob hub. There's a reason they called it the "melon launcher," that's exactly what the projectile feels like as it languidly arcs towards the target. Late-war German 30mm cannons shoot a lot like Hispanos, they are the BFG-9000 of AH. This is why you don't get in front of an Me-262.

3C. Japanese weapons: Japanese machine guns are generally equivalent to German guns- the 7.7s are hopeless, and the 13mm guns on the late-model Zeros and the Ki-84 are better, but don't compare to Brownings (in my limited experience.) Cannons- Japanese cannons have horribad range and ballistics, it's like throwing softballs. They have a great rate of fire but very little ammo, so save it for the kill and don't try long-range snapshots like you might with Hispanos. Late-war Japanese cannons- I don't know. I think it's the same, but they might be better.

3D. Russians: Russian machine guns actually are better then Brownings. The UB has a better rate of fire AND has nice ballistics, good guns. Russian 20mms (like in the Il-2, as if anybody ever flew that,) are rumored to be great. Historically they weren't quite as good ballistically as the Hispano but were close. I don't know much about russkie birds, so ask somebody else about that. I do know that the La-7 (which seems to be the most popular Russian ride in the MA) uses 30mm cannons, and that their ballistics are rather weak just like Japanese cannons, so treat them accordingly- the point-blank Win button.

Some of this is informed more by my knowledge of historical data which doesn't exactly correspond to AH modeling, so take it with a grain of salt, and if anybody calls me a retard, they'll probably be right.

La's have 20mm not 30mm, sometimes I wish it did have 3/30mm guns , but it would have to be perked then......

[Larry]

OP: Not all guns are equal, even in a given caliber. Different nations used different models of cannon, and AH reflects this. Here are a few quick and dirty rules from what to expect from your guns:

1. Any American plane with .50 cals has a very good reach, if you're very lucky you can hit targets at 600-800, but even with your convergence set to 600 yards, the bullet spread and loss of energy with distance will make an outright kill unlikely. Unless you're shooting at something that's basically a gas tank with wings- like the Zero.

2. American and British 20mm guns are modeling the Hispano cannon, which has/had a similar muzzle velocity to the .50 cal, and only slightly inferior performance at longer distances. Treat the 20mms on American and British planes like .50 cal brownings. (Whenever you fly a P-38, this means both your machine guns and cannons need the same amount of lead, so you can feel free to unload both at the same time.)

3. Everybody else's guns are a crap-shoot, both their machine guns and their cannons. A quick breakdown:

3A. German machine guns: 8mm guns in the early Bf-109s have crappy ballistics and range, comparable to British 303s. Later model Bf-109s with 13mm guns are substantially better, but these guns are not comparable to Brownings.

3B. German cannons: German 20mm cannons are not as good as Hispanos, but not too bad, either. You can get decent accurate range from them, but don't push it. Early German 30mm cannons suck- the only plane in AH with that one, IIRC, is the Bf-109G "Gustav," with the single 30mm in the prob hub. There's a reason they called it the "melon launcher," that's exactly what the projectile feels like as it languidly arcs towards the target. Late-war German 30mm cannons shoot a lot like Hispanos, they are the BFG-9000 of AH. This is why you don't get in front of an Me-262.

3C. Japanese weapons: Japanese machine guns are generally equivalent to German guns- the 7.7s are hopeless, and the 13mm guns on the late-model Zeros and the Ki-84 are better, but don't compare to Brownings (in my limited experience.) Cannons- Japanese cannons have horribad range and ballistics, it's like throwing softballs. They have a great rate of fire but very little ammo, so save it for the kill and don't try long-range snapshots like you might with Hispanos. Late-war Japanese cannons- I don't know. I think it's the same, but they might be better.

3D. Russians: Russian machine guns actually are better then Brownings. The UB has a better rate of fire AND has nice ballistics, good guns. Russian 20mms (like in the Il-2, as if anybody ever flew that,) are rumored to be great. Historically they weren't quite as good ballistically as the Hispano but were close. I don't know much about russkie birds, so ask somebody else about that. I do know that the La-7 (which seems to be the most popular Russian ride in the MA) uses 30mm cannons, and that their ballistics are rather weak just like Japanese cannons, so treat them accordingly- the point-blank Win button.

Some of this is informed more by my knowledge of historical data which doesn't exactly correspond to AH modeling, so take it with a grain of salt, and if anybody calls me a retard, they'll probably be right.

23mm

[Krusty]

<whoops>

[morfiend]

MK103 is probably what you're thinking of.  It'll show up on the Me410 when we get it.  The Me262 had a gun package with it, but it looks kinda special.  There were other 30mm cannons like the MK101 and MG213, but those definitely aren't coming to the game.

 Moot,while I'll agree that the Mg213 shouldnt make the game,I see no reason for the Mk101 not to be included.In fact IIRC the 110c was equipped with the Mk101 and it was put to good use against british harbour targets.Granted it was in the 110c-6 and added close to a tonne in weight,but was used in combat at squadron levels!!

[moot]

I didn't know about that.  I thought it wasn't ever used outside of experimentally.

[ink]

That's not what Scotch said. He mentioned kinetic energy in round damage.

Any round impact equation in AH can be expressed thusly:

Weapon caliber + (distance to target * muzzle velocity) + HE round yes/no.

You can have something like a 37mm field ack, fire a lucky shot at 4k, and still have enough of the equation on the "plus" side (weapon caliber mainly) to cause a kill shot.

What Scotch said, though, is that once ACM becomes second nature, it doesn't make sense to rely on quirks to augment that kill equation, because getting in close for the kill is pretty darn easy. If you can minimize the distance of your shot, you have a better chance of dealing a critical blow. Conversely, if you spray at long range, you can work out the above equation yourself and see that your chances of getting a kill are far fewer.

The moral of the story is that your ACM, not your gunnery, is quite often the most important factor in getting a kill.

not to argue with ya but, I read (wish I remember who said it) from a WW2 ace? that "the better shot will almost always win against a better pilot."

anyone know who said that?

[morfiend]

Moot,

 In fact they had 110g's with BK 3.7 aswell!

 source,aircraft of Luftwaffe.

 and again thx Moot.