109 K4

[Cajunn]

I was reading and I came across this bit of information:

   Armament of the K-4 consisted of a 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 engine-mounted cannon (Motorkanone) with 65 rounds, and two 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131s in the nose with 300 rpg although some K-4s were fitted with the MG 151/20 as the Motorkanone.[105] Additional Rüstsätze, or equipment kits, such as a 300 L (80 US gal) drop tank (R III), bombs up to the size of 500 kg/1,100 lb (R I), underwing 20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannon gondola pods (R IV) or 21 cm (8 in) Wfr.Gr. 21 rockets (as on the Gustav models) could be carried after minimal preparations; the latter two however were rarely used, but there is evidence that III./JG 26 were almost completely equipped with K-4s which were fitted with R IV. In addition there were problems with the 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 Motorkanone.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109


Why did we get the 20mm option?

[Die Hard]

And so we come full circle... 

[PFactorDave]

And so we come full circle... 

Unavoidable really.

[AWwrgwy]

I was reading and I came across this bit of information:


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109

Dig deeper.



wrongway

[Wmaker]

The fact that part of the K-4 production had MG151/20 in place of the MK108 has been mentioned in Prien & Rodeike's
Messerschmitt Bf109 F, G, and K: An Illustrated Study.

MK108 was the preferred weapon for the K-4 but because of Rheinmetall Borsig's difficulties in producing enough MK108s, electrical wiring was installed for both cannons so that when MK108 was unavailable, MG151/20 could be installed instead. I haven't seen any specific figures on how many of the K-4 actually had the MG151/20...and it is quite probable that such numbers don't exist or never will be found.

[Masherbrum]

Dig deeper.

wrongway

Why?   Because that is true?  The K4 was originally planned to have the two integral Mg151/20's and wooden wings (which would have affected the ailerons being fabric covered, instead of metal wings and Dural respectively), but it was scrapped.   

The more common configuration was the K4/R2 & R4 having underwing Mg151/20's.   

This is according to The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Recognition Manual by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau and this is very thorough. 

[Wmaker]

Why?   Because that is true?  The K4 was originally planned to have the two integral Mg151/20's and wooden wings (which would have affected the ailerons being fabric covered, instead of metal wings and Dural respectively), but it was scrapped.   

The more common configuration was the K4/R2 & R4 having underwing Mg151/20's.   

This is according to The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Recognition Manual by Marco Fernandez-Sommerau and this is very thorough. 

I understood that this thread is about the nose mounted cannon.

There's also pretty good agreement that the underwing cannons weren't very common (considering the whole production of K-4s). The Wikipedia's quote regarding the III/JG26 being the only known unit known to have had K-4s with wing cannons is accurate and been mentioned in Japo's K-4 book for example.

[Charge]

In this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Luftwaffe-Combat-Aircraft-Development-Production/dp/0887406831 it is mentioned that of 10 operational K4 groups 5 had or were going to have 1.98 Ata upgrade and (IIRC) 3 were converting to K4/R6 in March 1945.

And as you people like to bash wiki for incorrect information I'd like to point out that quite much of that information comes directly from books that are elsewhere regarded as legit information sources. If the information presented is obviously false it should be not a problem to provide correction.

-C+

[MiloMorai]

In this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Luftwaffe-Combat-Aircraft-Development-Production/dp/0887406831 it is mentioned that of 10 operational K4 groups 5 had or were going to have 1.98 Ata upgrade and (IIRC) 3 were converting to K4/R6 in March 1945.

And as you people like to bash wiki for incorrect information I'd like to point out that quite much of that information comes directly from books that are elsewhere regarded as legit information sources. If the information presented is obviously false it should be not a problem to provide correction.

-C+

OKL, Lw.-Führüngstab, Nr. 937/45 gKdos.(op) 20.03.45

1.   III./ JG 1 Bf 109 G-10 He 162 (April/May) -
2. II. / JG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
3. III. / JG 3 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
4. III. / JG 4 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
5. IV. / JG 4 Bf 109 K-4 K-4 -
6. III. / JG 5 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
7. IV. / JG 5 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
8. III. / JG 6 Bf 109 G-14/AS K-4 when deliveries permit -
9. II. / JG 11 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
10. I. / JG 27 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
11. II. / JG 27 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
12. III. / JG 27 Bf 109 G-10 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
13. I. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
14. III. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
15. IV. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
16. II. / JG 52 Bf 109 G-14/U4 K-4 when deliveries permit -
17. III. / JG 52 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
18. II. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
19. III. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
20. IV. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
21. I. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-14/U4 K-4 when deliveries permit -
22. II. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
23. III. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
24. III. / JG 300 Bf 109 G-10/R6 via K-4 to Me 262 planned, deadline
25. IV. / JG 300 Bf 109 G-10/R6 via K-4 to Me 262 -
26. I. / KG(J) 6 Bf 109 G-10/R6 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
27. II. / KG(J) 6 Bf 109 K-4 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
30. I. / KG(J) 27 Bf 109 G-10/R6 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
31. I. / KG(J) 55 Bf 109 G-10/R6 - -
32. II. / KG(J) 55 Bf 109 K-4 - to industrial defense
33. Ist Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
34. IInd Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
35. IIIrd Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit –

[Ruah]

wait. . .the K4 has a 20mm option?  or you wnat one? 

[Die Hard]

OKL, Lw.-Führüngstab, Nr. 937/45 gKdos.(op) 20.03.45

1.   III./ JG 1 Bf 109 G-10 He 162 (April/May) -
2. II. / JG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
3. III. / JG 3 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
4. III. / JG 4 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
5. IV. / JG 4 Bf 109 K-4 K-4 -
6. III. / JG 5 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
7. IV. / JG 5 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
8. III. / JG 6 Bf 109 G-14/AS K-4 when deliveries permit -
9. II. / JG 11 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
10. I. / JG 27 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
11. II. / JG 27 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
12. III. / JG 27 Bf 109 G-10 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
13. I. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
14. III. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
15. IV. / JG 51 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
16. II. / JG 52 Bf 109 G-14/U4 K-4 when deliveries permit -
17. III. / JG 52 Bf 109 G-14 K-4 when deliveries permit -
18. II. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change -
19. III. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
20. IV. / JG 53 Bf 109 K-4 no change boost increase to 1.98 ata
21. I. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-14/U4 K-4 when deliveries permit -
22. II. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
23. III. / JG 77 Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
24. III. / JG 300 Bf 109 G-10/R6 via K-4 to Me 262 planned, deadline
25. IV. / JG 300 Bf 109 G-10/R6 via K-4 to Me 262 -
26. I. / KG(J) 6 Bf 109 G-10/R6 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
27. II. / KG(J) 6 Bf 109 K-4 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
30. I. / KG(J) 27 Bf 109 G-10/R6 K-4/R6 when deliveries permit -
31. I. / KG(J) 55 Bf 109 G-10/R6 - -
32. II. / KG(J) 55 Bf 109 K-4 - to industrial defense
33. Ist Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
34. IInd Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit -
35. IIIrd Italian FG Bf 109 G-10 K-4 when deliveries permit –

MiloMorai, does that read as "no change [in] boost increase to 1.98 ata" or "no change [in Rüstsätz], boost increase[d] to 1.98 ata? Do you have the original German text?

Never mind, found this:

[Die Hard]

1.98 ata 109K? ... Want one. Want one bad!

[Cajunn]

I was just wondering if the K4 had the Motorkanone 20mm option like in the G14 & G10 why was it not added as an option in the game.

[Wmaker]

<Sigh> What makes it so hard to keep these threads on topic?

[Saurdaukar]

I was just wondering if the K4 had the Motorkanone 20mm option like in the G14 & G10 why was it not added as an option in the game.

It is my understanding that a book published several years ago mistakenly stated that the K4 had the 151 option when, in fact, it did not.

There are massive threads about this but I wouldnt know what to tell you to search for.