Author Topic: Fw 190D-9 'Dora'  (Read 2287 times)

Offline Jochen

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« on: February 08, 2000, 07:07:00 AM »
The "Dora" could out-climb and out-dive its BMW 801-powered predecessor with ease, and it possessed an excellent turning rate at speed. An experienced pilot could pull a tighter turn in a D-9 than he could with the BMW-powered FW-190A. The general opinion of the pilots who flew the FW 190D-9 was that it was the finest propeller-driven fighter available to the Luftwaffe during the entire war. In fact, many of its pilots considered it more than a match for the redoubtable P-51D Mustang.

For some odd reason, the designations Fw 190D-2 thru 8 were skipped, and the first production version of the "Dora" was the Fw 190D-9, which attained production status in the early summer of 1944. It was powered by a Jumo 213A-1 engine rated at 1776 hp for takeoff and 1600 at 18,000 feet. However, with MW 50 (water/methanol) injection, it could give 2240 hp at sea level and 2000 hp at 11,150 feet. The boost could not be used longer than ten minutes at a time, but there was sufficient MW 50 fuel for a maximum of 40 minutes use.


I wonder if anyone can give reasons why 190D-9 would have better turning capability than Fw 190A? Is it just part of the myth or is there any truth behind the claim?

As I see it, Dora was bit heavier with similar wing area which leads to increased wingloading, again leading to assumption that turning ability is worser.

On the other hand, powerloading might be bit better and weight distribution more ideal because of lenghtened tail section. I know powerloading has effect on turning ability but how great?

I'm sure Dora will be modeled quite soon, as most of the artwork can be imported from Fw 190A series. I guess FM needs bit more engine power and just a little bit of more weight. If we can take difference between AH and WB Fw 190A-8 as a reference, the AH Dora will be bit different than in WB.

 

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jochen
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If you ever get across the sea to England,
Then maybe at the closing of the day
The bars will all be serving German lager
Which means we won the war - hip hip hooray!

jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline wells

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2000, 07:37:00 AM »
I suspect the Dora was lighter than an A8, at least the one with all the armour that we have in AH, probably by about 500 lbs.  It's about 1000 lbs heavier than an A4 or A5.

Offline Minotaur

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2000, 07:48:00 AM »
Did the Dora have 4 x 20mm or 2 x 20mm?

Mino

Offline Kieren

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2000, 07:59:00 AM »
Minotaur-

Only 2.


Offline MANDOBLE

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2000, 08:06:00 AM »
As far as I know, 190A8 is heavier than any
D variant. 190Ds can outaccelerate, outrun,
outclimb, outdive and outturn (high/medium
speeds)190A8s. In the other hand, it seems
that 190A4 can easily outturn the Dora below
10000f.
The most close match to 190D9 is P51D. The
Mustang is a bit faster (level flight), but
the Dora can outclimb, outdive the Pony and
its roll rate at high speed is tremendous
compared to the P51D. The main advantage of
P51 over Dora is just its turning ability.


Offline juzz

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2000, 08:10:00 AM »
Answered your own question Jochen. The better powerloading(2000+ hp vs 1700), and also lower drag(less frontal area) allows the Dora to keep it's speed better in level turns.

Offline bashwolf

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2000, 08:24:00 AM »
Ah the D9, I put order for this plane. HT said it will be shipped to my house as soon he builts one.  Yea P51 you cant run no more  


Bash
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Offline Vermillion

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2000, 08:56:00 AM »
Operating from memory here, but while the average D9 had x2 MG151 20mm's plus x2 13mm MG's, it was similar to A8's in that it had many options.

I have seen pictures of D models with mounting points for all four wing cannons the same as the A models.

It will be interesting to see what the final armament options are.


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Vermillion
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Offline juzz

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2000, 09:54:00 AM »
More intereesting to see the range of JABO options available...

Offline Pongo

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2000, 10:46:00 AM »
Look in back of Jochens picture..
 
what shinny and new and comming for you??
Ill take a D13 with a side of 47n to go please...
Hold the paint on the 47.


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Pongo
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Offline MiG Eater

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2000, 12:13:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jochen:

I wonder if anyone can give reasons why 190D-9 would have better turning capability than Fw 190A? Is it just part of the myth or is there any truth behind the claim?

The fuselage plug immediately forward of the tail put the hor stab and elevator further back from the center of gravity.  This results in a greater moment arm for affecting pitch.  Depending on the pilot's strength (which an experienced pilot would certainly  have more of than a new pilot), he might be able to get a higher pitch rate and subsequent tighter turn at the expense of burning E and the risk of blacking out.

MiG

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2000, 01:25:00 PM »
"excellent turning rate at speed" is not the same thing than "turn rate", at speed the Dora could outurn even the Spitfire. I belive you are talking about Joe Baugher's paper about 190, in Robert Shaw's book, you could find a dogfight between Dora and P-51, the american pilot describes Dora having quite similar turn capabilities than P-51. Take a look the performance charts at http://www.geocities.com/weurger/main.htm  ( very nice site to EAW players )
Talking about Dora whit 4 cannons, it was
the Fw 190D-11, the fuselage-mounted guns were eliminated, and there were two MG 151s in the wing roots and two MK 108s in the outer wings. But only seven prototypes were built.
Take a look at: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190d.html

P51 x Dora = AFC x NFC

Offline Kieren

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2000, 01:43:00 PM »
Mig-

I almost posted more-or-less the same idea; thank you for verifying my thoughts!

I used to fly R/C scale models. The best flying plane I ever built was a 190D9. It was stable and maneuverable (for all the reasons you pointed out). Completely viceless. By comparison, any short-coupled a/c was twitchy and viscious. 190A's were not a lot of fun!

What else did I find? (this all before any online experience)

F4U- great roll, but rather heavy on the controls. Tendency to snap hard out of sustained turns. Engine-off performance was terrible, with little elevator authority.

P51- flew like it was on rails, but had a tendency to drop nose in sustained turns. Aileron authority greatly diminished at slow speed, overuse of rudder while slow resulted in a spin.

Zero- No vices. Very predictable flight (other than pronounced pitch-up with flaps).

Ki43- Very maneuverable. Snap rolls were easy to enter and exit.

ME109- sensitive to pitch, snap rolls were easy to enter and violent. Not a plane that I could ever "relax and fly".

Spitfire- a kite, pure and simple. Not overly fast, and could be floated down to a crawl. Ground handling was the only drawback.

P40- a real turd. Lost energy quick with power off (cowl drag), and didn't get it back easily. Always felt I had to stay ahead of it.

P39- stable, though slow to maneuver. Kind of a mushy flight envelope.

Ki100- fast! I used this one for combat, and it was a maneuverable little beast.

A26- a little underpowered, otherwise stable. Engine-out flight was possible, but required full attention. With both engines gone, it glided like a brick.

Had many others that have escaped my mind at the moment.  

Offline fats

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2000, 04:23:00 PM »
Wells,

Has Pyro said anything about the A-8 configuration with the different armament options? In other words, is the 4 x 20 mm the non armored version and if you grab 2 x 20 mm and 2 x 30 mm you get all the armor.


//fats

Offline juzz

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Fw 190D-9 'Dora'
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2000, 04:48:00 PM »
There's no different armoured/unarmoured version. You would notice the climbrate change significantly, and it doesn't when you select the 30mm.