Pyro/Nate: Could you add another tank type please?

[Ripsnort]

A alot of folks enjoy tank vs tank in this sim, though we're kinda limited.  Could you add like a Russian or American tank?

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 06-28-2000).]

[Ghosth]

Might as well tie me to your coattails rip.
Been agreeing with you right down the line lately!

While a Panzer vs Panzer fight is fun it's Not historical. Best of all would be if we could get both a US & a Russian tank.

Would also be a great time to release mobile artilery don't ya think?  

[Kieren]

Firefly Sherman would be perfect.  

[Greg 'wmutt' Cook]

Trouble with the US tanks is that they were no match one on one with the German iron.  The Sherman series overcame dramatic shortcomings by deploying in greater numbers and using it's better mobility (The only advantage it had) to out manuver the German units, more often cutting the supply lines and in effect starving (fuel, ammo, food) out their enemies, other than beating them toe to toe.
On the other hand, the late war Russan t-34 series and Studguard TD's flat outclassed anything the German army could put up against them as well. The late T-34s had a good chance of surviving a hit from the tigers at range, and could out manuver them to fight on their own terms.
I don't think anything but the t-34 would be used in the MA if we were given it.  I do think that Shermans, or possibly an M-10 TD, and T-34's would be very welcome in the SEA where we could tweak the numbers to make things more even.
just my 1.38 cents.

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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels

[B-Town]

What about some british IRON?
considering that we where the ones that did kinda bring in a lot of iron. I do belive that our tanks where pretty good?
Don't know I am not a Tank Exspert

[Greg 'wmutt' Cook]

Sorry B-town.  You are absolutly right.  A I'm not too familiar with the British WWII tanks.  But I do think that we could make room for a Churchill variant or two.  I like the Idea of a Churchill Flame driving onto a base and setting hangers on fire.... That would be too cool!!!

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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels

[humble]

The Firefly is a british varient on the M4...i'm not sure if it is derived from the "easy 8" sherman or the older M4 model...anyway it combines a 17 lber and reworked turret with the M4 chassis. It is not a match for the Panther with regard to armour but outclass's the PZIVh we have in all area's. It's gun is much deadlier than the 75mm pak 48 (or pak 42) in the current pz...and was equal to the german 88 I believe. It would also be competative with the T34/85 and seriously outgun the T34 (1943).

The most interesting addition to the ground game would be the "hellcat"(M-18 I believe) a U.S. tank destroyer that cruised at 80 mph and had a 76mm main gun. Although used in an antitank role it carried a duel purpose gun and HE and smoke ammo was available for it.

[humble]

Best british ride was the Comet, the cromwell had 4-5 varients and was the main british built tank in 44. A reasonable match for the current PZIVH but outclassed by the PZVD's. As for russian hardware...the T34(43) was the front line opponent to the PZIV..it's major drawback was the lack of a 3 man turret. This created rate of fire issues and the turret commander could not "fight" the tank from the cupola while engaging with the main gun. I'm a flight sim type so i don't know how far we're gonna go with the ground stuff. The other major component missing is armoured cars...US and germany had fast hard hitting scouts with guns ranging from 37mm to 75mm.

[Kieren]

Exactly right, Humble. The Firefly would hold its own here, easily.

[Replicant]

I'm not a tank expert but I trust any new tanks will be more than worthy and extremely more than welcome!  Bring 'em on!  

'Nexx'

[Pongo]

Did the 17pdr have an HE round? it didnt have a smoke round.
An M4A3E8(76mm) would be the ideal next tank.
Lots of ammo. plenty of gun to deal with a panzer IV, 50 cal AAMG, stabilized, Good Gun, armour and speed compared to a PzIVH..

[fdiron]

Here is some info on the M18 Hellcat:

Type: Tank Destroyer
Production Period: Jul. 1943-Oct. 1944
Crew: 5
Primary Armament: 76mm Gun M1A1, M1A1C or M1A2  
Ammunition Carried: 45
Secondary Armament :1 x .50 caliber MG HB M2 (AA)
Ammunition Carried: 800

Speed on/off road: 80 km/h
Now here is one of the most important parts of the tank, the armor.  Check this out!
The hull armor is only 13mm thick!
The front of the turret is 25mm thick and the mantlet is 19mm thick.  This tank sure isnt going to stop any shells hitting it.


All information recieved from http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/ftdm18.htm

[Jigster]

While the VC Firefly with the 17pdr is a great tank, I believe if we are going with a Sherman we should consider the M4A3E2-76 Jumbo Sherman. While the Easy Eight is a great tank, I think the much heavy frontal and side armor of the Jumbo would be much more useful.

The Comet and Challanger, along with the Centurion would make great British tanks, all will the 17pdr. Btw they did carry HE rounds.

As far as Russian tanks go...I'd love to see a KV-1C or KV-85 tank, only problem is no plane or the PzIV would be able to kill it with the exception of a rear shot at close range. The Tiger's 88 barely ever made a frontal shot kill on it, and Panthers did only fairly better. A T-34/85 would be a very good choice given it's gun and speed.

Back to US tanks... an M-18 has a top speed of about 55mph   the 80 is in km/h. It's kinda hard to say what it's impact would be. It's opened topped so even a .303 or 7.9mm gun has a chance of destroying it, and it only carried 15 HE shells at the max (It was a TD unit after all)

A M-36 Jackson would give a good trade off of excellent gun and speed to again, weak armor and an open top, but it's 90mm is a much more flexiable gun compaired to the M-18's 76mm.

The Panzer IVH is by no means a slouch of a tank, from the lessons learned of the PIV F2 and the earlier IV tanks, and was quite the late war slugger. (Albiet more of a Close support then the Panther or Tiger) and that has to be taken into consideration when developing an allied tank.

Below are most of the stats for the tanks mentioned so far...take a looksie and see what you think would offer the most while keeping the balance  

- Jig

M4A3E2-76 "Jumbo" Sherman

Speed  35.4 km/h
Off Road  12.0 km/h
Rev Speed  18.0 km/h
Body Mass  37.0 tons

Front Armor  140.0 mm
Side Armor  75.0 mm
Rear Armor  40.0 mm
Front Turret  167.0 mm
Side Turret  153.0 mm
Rear Turret  152.0 mm
Top Armor  25.0 mm

Turret
Traverse Speed  24 degrees per second
Elevate Min -10.0 degrees
Elevate Max  25.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity = 792ms
Projectile Mass  7.0kg
Caliber  76mm
AP Ammo 30
HE Ammo  31

KV-1S (Lighter armor, yet much faster variant)

Speed  45.0 km/h
Off Road  12.0 km/h
Rev Speed  22.5 km/h
Body Mass  42.5 tons

Front Armor  100.0 mm
Side Armor  60.0 mm
Rear Armor  50.0 mm
Front Turret  109.0 mm
Side Turret  85.0 mm
Rear Turret  95.0 mm
Top Armor  30.0 mm


 Turret
Traverse Speed  22 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -3.0 degrees
Elevate Max  30.0 degrees
Velocity  655 m/s
Projectile Mass  6.3kg
Caliber  76mm
AP Ammo  50
HE Ammo  64

British Comet

Speed  46.7 km/h
Off Road  13.0 km/h
Rev Speed  23.0 km/h
Body Mass  35.8 tons

Front Armor  101.0 mm
Side Armor  50.0 mm
Rear Armor  50.0 mm
Front Turret  101.0 mm
Side Turret  50.0 mm
Rear Turret  50.0 mm
Top Armor 14.0 mm

 Turret
Traverse Speed  24 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -12.0 degrees
Elevate Max  20.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity  792 m/s
Projectile Mass  7.7kg
Caliber  77mm

AP Ammo  39
HE Ammo  19

Sherman M4A3E8 "Easy Eight"

Speed  41.8 km/h
Off Road  16.0 km/h
Rev Speed  21.0 km/h
Body Mass  32.0 tons

Front Armor  94.0 mm
Side Armor  38.0 mm
Rear Armor  40.0 mm
Front Turret  89.0 mm
Side Turret  65.0 mm
Rear Turret  64.0 mm
Top Armor  25.0 mm

Turrent
Traverse Speed  24 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -10.0 degrees
Elevate Max  25.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity  792 m/s
Projectile Mass  7.0kg
Caliber  76mm

AP Ammo  30
HE Ammo  31

M-36 "Jackson" TD

Speed  48.3 km/h
Off Road  14.5 km/h
Rev Speed  24.0 km/h

Body Mass  28.1 tons

Front Armor  88.0 mm
Side Armor  25.0 mm
Rear Armor  22.0 mm
Front Turret  76.0 mm
Side Turret  32.0 mm
Rear Turret  25.0 mm
Top Armor  15.0 mm

 Turret
Traverse Speed  30 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -10.0 degrees
Elevate Max  20.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity  853 m/s
Projectile Mass  10.9kg
Caliber  90mm
AP Ammo  37
HE Ammo  10

Sherman IIC "FireFly"

Speed  36.0 km/h
Off Road = 12.0 km/h
Rev Speed = 18.0 km/h
Body Mass  34.0 tons

Front Armor  69.0 mm
Side Armor  25.0 mm
Rear Armor  25.0 mm
Front Turret  80.0 mm
Side Turret  26.0 mm
Rear Turret  25.0 mm
Top Armor  19.0 mm

 Turret
Traverse Speed  24 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -10.0 degrees
Elevate Max  15.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity  883 m/s
Projectile Mass  7.7kg
Caliber  77mm
AP Ammo  50
HE Ammo  27

T-34-85

Speed 55.0 km/h
Off Road  16.5 km/h
Rev Speed  27.5 km/h
Body Mass  32.0 tons

Front Armor  90.0 mm
Side Armor  52.0 mm
Rear Armor  56.0 mm
Front Turret  129.0 mm
Side Turret  103.0 mm
Rear Turret  76.0 mm
Top Armor  20.0 mm

 Turret
Traverse Speed  17 degrees per second
Elevate Min  -3.0 degrees
Elevate Max  30.0 degrees
Projectile Velocity  792 m/s
Projectile Mass  9.02kg
Caliber  85mm

AP Ammo  35
HE Ammo  20

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by fdiron:
Here is some info on the M18 Hellcat:

Type: Tank Destroyer
Production Period: Jul. 1943-Oct. 1944
Crew: 5
Primary Armament: 76mm Gun M1A1, M1A1C or M1A2  
Ammunition Carried: 45
Secondary Armament :1 x .50 caliber MG HB M2 (AA)
Ammunition Carried: 800

Speed on/off road: 80 km/h
Now here is one of the most important parts of the tank, the armor.  Check this out!
The hull armor is only 13mm thick!
The front of the turret is 25mm thick and the mantlet is 19mm thick.  This tank sure isnt going to stop any shells hitting it.


All information recieved from http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/ftdm18.htm

and it was open topped wasnt it? not a great advantage in this game.

[Jigster]

M-18 would be TD only...I would kinda perfer a allied main tank before something like it is implemented.

The T-34-85 was one of the fastest main battle tanks of WWII, thus was the legacy of the T-34 gained from the Bt-5 and Bt-7 models.

Btw a Churchill is absolutely useless in this game. It's top speed is only 8mph. It would take FOREVER to get there. The only version that might serve a purpose is the CS-95mm version, and it has even more armor then a regular Churchill making it even slower.

While the Churchill Crocodile is probably the most famous flame tank, the Sherman Flame (M4A3 with 25 gal flame thrower replacing hull MG) and the M5 Flame (M5A1 Stuart with 25-50 gal capcity flame thrower in main gun position) are a little more suited to the AH arena. Not that we need a flame tank anyway  

M5A1 Stuart would make a nice light tank for busting up bases, but the 37mm is pretty much useless vs something like a Pz IVH

- Jig