Author Topic: Me 410 specs  (Read 1412 times)

Offline Meatloaf

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Me 410 specs
« on: June 11, 2009, 10:53:19 PM »
The Messerschmitt Me 410 Hornisse ("Hornet") was a German heavy fighter and Schnellbomber used by Luftwaffe during World War II developed from the badly flawed Me 210. Essentially a straightforward modification of that type, the Me 210 had garnered such a negative reputation it was renamed the Me 410 to avoid association with its predecessor.

Design and development
Plans to introduce the Me 210 had been underway since 1939, but the aircraft proved to be extremely unstable and never considered acceptable enough to enter full-scale production. A number of modifications to the layout produced the Me 210C and D, which proved to be superior to the earlier versions. As studies progressed on the Me 210D, it was instead decided to introduce a "new" model, the Me 410.

The major change between the Me 210 and 410 was the introduction of the larger and more powerful Daimler-Benz DB 603A engines, which improved power to 1,750 PS (1,730 hp, 1,290 kW) compared to the 1,475 PS DB 605s used on the Me 210C. The engine performance increased the Me 410's maximum speed to 625 km/h (388 mph), greatly improved rate of climb, service ceiling, and most notably the cruise speed, which jumped to 579 km/h (360 mph). It also improved payload capability to the point where the aircraft could lift more war load than could fit into the bomb bay under the nose. To address this, shackles were added under the wings for four 50 kg (110 lb) bombs. The changes added an extra 680 kg (1,500 lb) to the Me 210 design, but the extra engine power more than made up for the difference.

The new version included a lengthened fuselage and new leading edge slats, both of which had been tested on Me 210s and were found to dramatically improve handling. The slats had originally been featured on the earliest Me 210 models, but had been removed on production models due to poor handling. When entering a sharp turn, the slats had a tendency to open, due in part to the turn causing a change in air pressure at the leading edge of the wings (this problem was first observed on the prototype Bf 109E), which added to the problems keeping the aircraft flying smoothly. However, when the problems with the general lateral instability were addressed, this was no longer a real problem.

Deliveries began in January 1943, two years later than the original plan had called for, and continued until September 1944, by which point a total of 1,160 of all versions had been produced by Messerschmitt Augsburg and Dornier München. When it arrived, it was liked by its crews, even though its improved performance was not enough to protect it from the swarms of high performance Allied fighters they faced.

Operational history
The Me 410 night bomber proved to be an elusive target for the RAF night fighters. The first unit to operate over the UK was V/KG 2, which lost its first Me 410 on the night of 13-14 July 1943, shot down by a de Havilland Mosquito of No. 85 Squadron.

The Me 410 was also used as a bomber destroyer against the daylight bomber streams of the USAAF. The Me 410A-1/U2 was fitted with two additional 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in the undernose weapons bay, while the A-1/U4 was equipped with a Bordkanone series 50 mm (2 in) BK-5 cannon instead. For breaking up the bomber formations, many Me 410s also had four underwing tubes firing converted 21 cm (8 in) Werfergranate 21 mortar rockets. Two Geschwader, Zerstörergeschwader 26 and 76, were thus equipped with the Me 410 by late 1943.

Moderately successful against unescorted bombers, a considerable number of kills against USAAF day bomber formations were achieved. Unfortunately for the Luftwaffe, the Me 410 was no match in a dogfight with the lighter Allied single-engine fighters such as the 6 tonne (7 ton) P-47 Thunderbolt or the even lighter P-51 Mustang. In the spring of 1944, the Me 410 formations encountered swarms of Allied fighters protecting the bomber streams and their successes against escorted bombers were often offset by their losses. An example of this on 6 March 1944 saw 16 Me 410s shot down in return for eight B-17s and four P-51s (which were destroyed by Bf 109 and Fw 190 fighters escorting the Me 410s)[1][2]. The following month on 11 April II.ZG 26's Me 410s accounted for a rare success, downing 10 B-17s without any losses. However, the unit's luck then ran out. During the course of the same raid, their second sortie was intercepted by P-51s that destroyed eight Me 410s and three Bf 110s. 16 crewman were killed and three wounded.

Variants
 
Messerschmitt Me 410A-1/U1The basic A-series aircraft were armed with two 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns and two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in the nose and delivered as the Me 410A-1 light bomber. The originally planned Me 410A-2 heavy fighter was cancelled because the dual 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 103 cannon pack was not ready in time. The Me 410A featured a bomb bay for carrying air-to-ground ordnance or for the installation of additional air-to-air weaponry or other equipment. Initially, three Umrüst-Bausätze (conversion kits) were available, U1 contained a palette of cameras for the photo-reconnaissance role, U2 two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 250 rpg for the heavy fighter use, and U4 used the 50 mm (2 in) Bordkanone series weapon, the BK-5 cannon with 21 rounds, to turn the aircraft into a dedicated bomber destroyer. The BK 5 cannon - derived from the Panzer III tank's main armament, the 50 mm (2 in) KwK 39 L/60 - allowed the Me 410s to shoot at their targets from over 914 m (1,000 yd), a distance at which the bombers' defensive armament was useless for defense. Frequent problems with jamming and limited ammunition supply (together with the extra weight of the large gun) made the other anti-bomber versions of Me 410, especially those with extra 20 mm MG 151/20s, much more useful. The dedicated reconnaissance version Me 410A-3 received a deeper fuselage for additional cameras and fuel. The Me 410A-3 entered service in small numbers in early 1944, and equipped three long-range reconnaissance Staffeln, known as Fernaufklärungsgruppen (one on the Western Front and the other two on the Eastern Front).

The Me 410B-series was largely the same as the A-series, but replaced the 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 with 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine gun. The originally planned 1,900 hp (1,400 kW) DB 603G engine was cancelled in early 1944, so all Me 410Bs used DB 603A or DB 603AA engines. The DB 603G would have increased the maximum speed to 630 km/h (392 mph), and cruising speed to 595 km/h (370 mph), although the weights increased once again. The versions were the same as with the A-series, the Me 410B-1, and Me 410B-3 filling the same roles as the earlier A-1, and A-3 versions.

Several experimental models were also developed. The Me 410B-5 added shackles under the fuselage to carry a torpedo, and removed the MG 131s in the nose to make room for the FuG 200 Hohentwiel 550 MHz UHF-band ship-search radar. The bomb bay was not used in this version in order to make room for a 650 L (170 US gal) fuel tank, and the rearward-firing remote turrets were replaced by another 700 L (180 US gal) fuel tank for long-range missions. The Me 410B-6 was a similar anti-shipping conversion, but intended for the short-range coastal defense role only. For this mission, it did not use a torpedo, and was instead a simple modification of the B-1 with the FuG 200 radar. The Me 410B-7/B-8 were updated B-3 reconnaissance models that were only built as prototypes.

The Me 410C was a high-altitude version drawn up in early 1944, with two new wing designs that increased span to 18.25 m (60 ft) or 20.45 m (67 ft). The larger wings allowed the gear to retract directly to the rear. A new universal engine mount would allow for the use of any of the DB 603JZ or BMW 801J turbocharged engines or the Jumo 213E two-stage mechanically supercharged engines, driving a new four-blade propeller with very wide blades. The BMW 801 radials was air-cooled and the DB 603 and Jumo 213 used an annular radiator, so the normal under-wing radiators were removed. None were ever built, as Me 410 production was canceled before the engines matured.

The Me 410D was a simpler upgrade to the B-series to improve altitude performance, but not to the same degree as the C-series. It would be powered by the DB 603JZ engines, and had a revised forward fuselage to increase the field of view of the pilot and reduce drag. It also replaced portions of the outer wing panels with ones made of wood to conserve strategic materials. Several were built, but like many other attempts at wood construction, the loss of the Tego-Film factory in Wuppertal, in a Royal Air Force nighttime bombing raid, meant the acidic replacement adhesives available were not strong enough, and the wooden portions tended to fail.

Production was eventually cancelled to concentrate on Bf 109Gs in August 1944, after 1,160 Me 410s had been built.


Operators
 Germany
Luftwaffe

Specifications (Me 410 A-1)
General characteristics

Crew: 2 (pilot and gunner)
Length: 12.56 m (41.2 ft)
Wingspan: 16.34 m (53.6 ft 7 in)
Height: 3.7 m (12,14 ft)
Wing area: 36.20 m² (390 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,627 kg (14,597 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 11,244 kg (24,766 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,750 PS (1,726 hp, 1,287 kW) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 624 km/h (388 mph)
Range: 2,300 km (1,400 mi) combat
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,810 ft)
Armament


Bombs: up to 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) of disposable stores[5]
Comparable aircraft

Messerschmitt Bf 110
de Havilland Mosquito
Northrop P-61 Black Widow[/color


References
Notes
^ W. N Hess, p82
^ Caldwell & Muller, p137
^ Caldwell & Muller, p183
^ Caldwell & Muller, p198
^ Rechlin E'Stelle Erpr. Nr. 1929. Br.B.Nr. 773/43 g.Kdos.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2009, 11:06:09 PM »
Awesome copy & paste  :D
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Offline Meatloaf

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2009, 11:07:21 PM »
Thank you  :rock
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2009, 11:09:46 PM »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

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Offline Meatloaf

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2009, 11:12:18 PM »
I know m00t, but noone gave specs.  :rock
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Offline moot

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 11:15:43 PM »
I was gonna break down the specs to show the exact breakdown of each configuration.. haven't gotten around to it yet but I'll do it soon.
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Offline Meatloaf

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 11:16:38 PM »
woot woot, we got some people gunnin for the 410 (pun intended)  :rock
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Offline vonKrimm

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2009, 11:21:33 PM »
and U4 used the 50 mm (2 in) Bordkanone series weapon, the BK-5 cannon with 21 rounds, to turn the aircraft into a dedicated bomber destroyer. The BK 5 cannon - derived from the Panzer III tank's main armament, the 50 mm (2 in) KwK 39 L/60 - allowed the Me 410s to shoot at their targets from over 914 m (1,000 yd), a distance at which the bombers' defensive armament was useless for defense.

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

someone tell 999000 about this please


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Offline moot

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 11:35:44 PM »
A single BK5 hit from 1000y vs. the amount of defensive bullets you take from the fraction of a second it takes to fire that BK5 shot...
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Offline vonKrimm

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 12:01:38 AM »
A single BK5 hit from 1000y vs. the amount of defensive bullets you take from the fraction of a second it takes to fire that BK5 shot...

News Flash reality and AH are not the same thing.


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Offline moot

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 10:28:50 AM »
Your point?
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Offline vonKrimm

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 10:44:12 AM »
Your point?

because i've been hit at 1.5 out from bombers by some of the best shots.  That 1000yd is not how things work in AH; the BK5 range would NOT be outside a BUFFs defensive gun range.

That is the point.


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Offline Motherland

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2009, 11:24:24 AM »
Reality is certainly not the same as Aces High.... in reality, the BK5 was a miserable failure, and though it was intended to increase the effective firing range of the Me 410, it didn't.

"At the beginning of the war our tanks could only open fire from a distance of 800 yards if they wanted to be sure of the results, while our latest types were in a position to combat enemy tanks from a distance of 3000 yards. The Jagdwaffe alone had not developed along these lines. They still had to close in to 400 yards before they could use their weapons effectively.
From this consideration arose the order for fighters and destroyers to use a large-caliber long-distance cannon against  the American bomber formations. The result was as follows: an Me-410 destroyer, equipped with [the] armored-car cannon KWK 5, weighing 2000 pounds (!), was reconstructed as an automatic weapon with a magazine holding about 15 shells, [with] a rate of fire [of] about one shot per second. It was possible to fly with this monster sticking 3 yards out in front; firing was possible, too, although the cannon jammed hopelessly after about five shots. One could even hit something, not at 1000 or 3000 yards' distance, but at the most from 400 yards! Beyond that all chances of a hit were spoiled by having to fly the aircraft. Nothing was gained, therefore, and firing was reduced to single shots. We used to say ironically that we only had to shatter the morale of the bomber crew by a few artillery shots, then we could ram the Mustangs and Thunderbolts with our gun barrel."

From The First and the Last by Adolf Galland.


Who knows how well it would work in Aces High, but however well, if it only worked out to 900 yards it would be useless, as by the time you got in to 900 yards you would be dead...

Offline moot

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Re: Me 410 specs
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2009, 11:27:47 AM »
because i've been hit at 1.5 out from bombers by some of the best shots.  That 1000yd is not how things work in AH; the BK5 range would NOT be outside a BUFFs defensive gun range.

That is the point.
You took critical damage from 1.5 out?  Sounds like you had some combination of flying dead straight for the gunners, some bad luck, and some good luck on gunner's part.  1.5K damage is rare in any circumstances, 1K damage is only slightly less rare when you're correctly spoiling the gunners' shots.
The point is even 999 can't do critical damage at a glancing shot, a shot that's fired while maneuvering at high speed from 1K out.  How do I know this?  I've flown against 999 many times.  A gun that fires a shell with the same ballistics as a 50cal, but with 30 times the kinetic energy and probably a time of flight correspondingly larger, as the NS37 round and Ostie's round are, on a platform that can maneuver at the same level as the other heavy twins in the game means that with enough practice you can fire the shot easily out of the range of 50% risk, the same way you can do it now with the B25H against WWs, osties, and yes bomber formations... Is going to be bad news for bombers' "1K defensive bubble".
Reality is certainly not the same as Aces High.... in reality, the BK5 was a miserable failure, and though it was intended to increase the effective firing range of the Me 410, it didn't.

"At the beginning of the war our tanks could only open fire from a distance of 800 yards if they wanted to be sure of the results, while our latest types were in a position to combat enemy tanks from a distance of 3000 yards. The Jagdwaffe alone had not developed along these lines. They still had to close in to 400 yards before they could use their weapons effectively.
From this consideration arose the order for fighters and destroyers to use a large-caliber long-distance cannon against  the American bomber formations. The result was as follows: an Me-410 destroyer, equipped with [the] armored-car cannon KWK 5, weighing 2000 pounds (!), was reconstructed as an automatic weapon with a magazine holding about 15 shells, [with] a rate of fire [of] about one shot per second. It was possible to fly with this monster sticking 3 yards out in front; firing was possible, too, although the cannon jammed hopelessly after about five shots. One could even hit something, not at 1000 or 3000 yards' distance, but at the most from 400 yards! Beyond that all chances of a hit were spoiled by having to fly the aircraft. Nothing was gained, therefore, and firing was reduced to single shots. We used to say ironically that we only had to shatter the morale of the bomber crew by a few artillery shots, then we could ram the Mustangs and Thunderbolts with our gun barrel."

From The First and the Last by Adolf Galland.


Who knows how well it would work in Aces High, but however well, if it only worked out to 900 yards it would be useless, as by the time you got in to 900 yards you would be dead...

FYI  
Reality isn't AH.  THe B25H was such a bad bomber destroyer platform that it never occured to real pilots to use it this way against real bombers in real war conditions. 
signed  captain obvious
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 11:30:35 AM by moot »
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