Some 190A8 questions

[MANDOBLE]

Having flown mostly that bird in almost all tours I have some questions about this plane:
1 - Are outer 151s unsichronized (max ROF)?
2 - Are La5 and Nikki faster than A8 at sea level?
3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?
4 - Nikkis and Spits rolls almost as good as A8 (320 Mph and below) while 109s cant follow 190 rolls at any speed above 250 mph. Should this be that way?
5 - The difference in weight and HP between A5 and A8 translates into 1100 fpm in substained climb favouring A5 (WEP on). Is that correct?
8 - Is logical so noticeable difference in E retention between A8 and planes like Spits, Nikkis or F4Us? As a side note, almost unnoticeable difference in E retention with any 109 model respect the A8.

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Having flown mostly that bird in almost all tours I have some questions about this plane:
1 - Are outer 151s unsichronized (max ROF)?

They should be.  RoF around 700-750 rpm.  (Inner guns synchronised, RoF c. 650 rpm.)

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm

[RAM]

1 - Are outer 151s unsichronized (max ROF)?

Seems that they are unsinchronized. At least people say it. But, as we can't fire them alone because THERE IS NO INTERRUPTOR SWITCH TO SELECT THE PROPER CANNON FIRE!!!!! (HINT H-I-N-T), we can't test it with a lot of accuracy (the inner cannons have variable ROF because the propeller disc, so making a sustraction quite a bit complicated)

2 - Are La5 and Nikki faster than A8 at sea level?

La5 definitely yes. N1K2 in charts says that no, but I've been hunted quite a lot of times by them. I'd say that have more or less equal speeds at SL.

3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?

Of course. Everyone knows that the F4U was the best plane sincE Leonardo Da Vinci designed his first paper plane sketch.      

4 - Nikkis and Spits rolls almost as good as A8 (320 Mph and below) while 109s cant follow 190 rolls at any speed above 250 mph. Should this be that way?

There are definite proofs showed in the form of NACA tests, that the Fw190's roll is between 15º-20º/second slower than what it should (look into the rollrates thread).

5 - The difference in weight and HP between A5 and A8 translates into 1100 fpm in substained climb favouring A5 (WEP on). Is that correct?

I'm not sure about this one. Maybe one of the people who know about aerodynamics here (wells, Jekyll, Niklas) can answer that. But I'd say that yes.

8 - Is logical so noticeable difference in E retention between A8 and planes like Spits, Nikkis or F4Us? As a side note, almost unnoticeable difference in E retention with any 109 model respect the A8.

Personally I think that the E-retention in the N1K2 is that of a UFO in steroids, I have said it a lot of times and I will keep it. There is one thread asking about if the FMs of the F6F and F4U got mixed and each plane has the others' FM (I'm serious, check it in this same forum), and the Spitfire was always a good e-retainer.

I'd say that the 190A8 imo bleeds too much E in maneouvers. It should be poor e-retainer due the high wingloading, and not great powerloading...but not as it does now,that even the slightest move costs you loads of E.

I am talking by feeling again, I'm not aerodinamics big understander compared with the monsters who are here      . But I'll let that one to the people here.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-12-2001).]

[fd ski]

1 - Are outer 151s unsichronized (max ROF)?

No idea here.

2 - Are La5 and Nikki faster than A8 at sea level?

La5 is faster. Niki should be slower.

 
3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?

They should be relatively close. 190 never was a great climber - neither was F4U. They are both average at best.

4 - Nikkis and Spits rolls almost as good as A8 (320 Mph and below) while 109s cant follow 190 rolls at any speed above 250 mph. Should this be that way?

Spits roll slower then 190 ( i fly both ). As for Niki - i don't know - i don't fly them. You might be seeing effects of netlag.
109  was known for its problems with extreemly high stick forces required for roll input - especially at high speeds. Hell, G10 and above models were virtually uncontrolable at 400 mph speeds. Just point and fly straight.

5 - The difference in weight and HP between A5 and A8 translates into 1100 fpm in substained climb favouring A5 (WEP on). Is that correct?

Yes. A5 isd lighter - A8 added more armor. Overall A5 is more of a dogfighter - A8 is a buff killer.

8 - Is logical so noticeable difference in E retention between A8 and planes like Spits, Nikkis or F4Us? As a side note, almost unnoticeable difference in E retention with any 109 model respect the A8.[/B][/QUOTE]

I know that spitfire should be a king of a hill as far as E retention goes. 109 should be somewhat better then F4U. 190 from my experiance doesn't retain E very well, you should be very careful not to get it too slow.
Wells can give you scientific reasoning.


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by fd ski:
3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?

They should be relatively close. 190 never was a great climber - neither was F4U. They are both average at best.

Although, earlier 190s were good climbers of their time, right?
but cant compare that to some late war planes..  and A-8 is probably worst climbing 190 that was made in numbers (a flying tank)

Though, I think that 190 loses bit too much E in comparison to others.
but not worst, that place goes probably for Typhoon, which loses speed fast, but it does one weird snap reverses while having E (which 190 does not do).

What comes to speed, A-8 is just average

[Hooligan]

The following information was correct as of version 1.02

2 -

I have timed the guns with a stopwatch.

The outer guns are unsynchronized, ROF 700.
The inner guns are synchronized, ROF 630.

Hooligan

[Graywolf]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Though, I think that 190 loses bit too much E in comparison to others.
but not worst, that place goes probably for Typhoon, which loses speed fast, but it does one weird snap reverses while having E (which 190 does not do).

Wandering off the thread a little, but then that's kind of traditional here =)

I fly the Typhoon a lot, though almost always in a ground attack role, and I find it's agility is very dependant on weight, particularly fuel load. When it's down to fumes you seem to be able to hual it around all over the place, but if it's got a lot of fuel on board then sometimes it feels like you are flying a brick. A rather fast brick, but still a brick =)




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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

[Vermillion]

1 - Are outer 151s unsichronized (max ROF)?

As previously stated. Yes.

2 - Are La5 and Nikki faster than A8 at sea level?

The La5 is very fast at sea level (compared to its speeds at altitude), and I believe about as fast as the 190, maybe slightly faster. If you look at the displacement size of the engine in the La5 compared to its size/weight (not its total horsepower), and the lack of Soviet Engines performance at altitude, this makes alot of sense. It comes down to brute force.

The N1K2 performance chart on the website is out dated. Pyro has said this a couple of times. I haven't tested it lately, but in the arena if I was flying a 190, I would assume that the N1K2 was just as fast (only at SL but it accelerates better) as the 190 for safety's sake.

3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?

I thought that the 190 outclimbed the F4U for the first 5k-7k of altitude before the F4U took over? Above that its not a suprise given the R2800's performance at altitude compared to the BMW 801.

4 - Nikkis and Spits rolls almost as good as A8 (320 Mph and below) while 109s cant follow 190 rolls at any speed above 250 mph. Should this be that way?

Spits have always had good roll rates and probably should.

The N1K2 has an extremely poor roll rate, and at high speeds its downright horrible. Its even worse than the P38 (which is really strange). It requires liberal use of the rudder to reverse directions at anything more than a glacial speed.

5 - The difference in weight and HP between A5 and A8 translates into 1100 fpm in substained climb favouring A5 (WEP on). Is that correct?

Yes

8 - Is logical so noticeable difference in E retention between A8 and planes like Spits, Nikkis or F4Us? As a side note, almost unnoticeable difference in E retention with any 109 model respect the A8.

Your mixing up several issues here under the title of "E retention".

Including (very loose descriptions) parasitic drag (straight line drag), induced drag (when you manuever), and the ability to produce E (how fast the engine produces energy).

Spits have good E retention all the way around.

N1K2's have high parasitic drag (limits it to slow speeds), low induced drag (it lows litle E in manuevers), and a hell of a huge engine to regain it.

Fw190's and F4U's are similar in most categories, except I would think that the F4U's more powerful engine and slightly lower induced drag (possibly due to its gull wing desing?) gives it the edge in most cases.

Again these are very loose descriptions, and do not tell the whole story.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

I feel compelled to answer some of these since the 190A8 was my main ride for several tours, I only answered the ones I know of:

 

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
2 - Are La5 and Nikki faster than A8 at sea level?

Not sure about LA5, but the N1k, YES, done many tests when in JG2 , and N1K can catch co-alt, co-E 190A8 on the deck.

 

3 - Is F4U so better climber than A8 (substained climb and wep on)?

Most definately yes.

 

4 - Nikkis and Spits rolls almost as good as A8 (320 Mph and below) while 109s cant follow 190 rolls at any speed above 250 mph. Should this be that way?

The 190A8 should outroll all A/C with the possible exception of the Jug.


 

8 - Is logical so noticeable difference in E retention between A8 and planes like Spits, Nikkis or F4Us? As a side note, almost unnoticeable difference in E retention with any 109 model respect the A8.

Good question, I don't know.



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-12-2001).]

[funked]

There is not an 1100 fpm climb difference between A-5 and A-8.

[Hooligan]

On the AH charts the climb difference appears to be about 500 FPM.

Hooligan

[hazed-]

i thought the 190 was THE fastest rolling plane of WW2 and was well known for it.the Jug equal to it? well ive never heard that.
can someone tell me where AH gets its data?
Id like to buy the damn books  

hazed

[StSanta]

The 190 outrolls all aircraft at slow and moderate speeds.

At higher speeds, it is outrolled by the p-51, F4Uc and D and P-38. Haven't tested versus others, but those I know.

Heh A8 slower than a N1k? When did this happen? Dinnae know that.



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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht

[LJK Raubvogel]

I pulled away from a Nik in a level chase the other night in my A8. It wasn't much of a difference, but I was definitely faster.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
I pulled away from a Nik in a level chase the other night in my A8. It wasn't much of a difference, but I was definitely faster.

Fw190A8 in AH owns the reputation of P-47  

Push nose down and dive away from your foe..
great diver.