Author Topic: Time to fix the paper stang?  (Read 1194 times)

Offline Tern

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2000, 10:02:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by juzz:
Lets do some comparitive testing then, and see if it actually is significantly weaker than the other planes...
 I tell you this from experience:  Coyote had a 26 over F23 the other night and he bounced 10 Knit 51's that were heavy.  the knits dropped ord and clawed for alt, (which they never did get) while Coyo kept them busy.
ArkanReb, Bee and I arrived on the scene all in Bish 51's and proceeded to salughter the knits with B&Z.  I downed 4 or 5 with no more than a 2second burst each, firing at my convergence range.  Nearly all of the 51's I hit disintegrated, lost wings, etc. and I ain't the hottest shot in AH by a long margin.
Tried the same thing against a 190 earlier and it took 3 passes before he went in.  N1K's are mixed results with about 40% of them going down with a 2 second burst.  Spits are 50/50 results and the Hawg... sheesh, it took a sustained 4 second burst to hurt him at all and he still made it home! :O
So, I have to agree with Hangtime, that the 51 is really a fabric and plywood P-40 in disguise.    
Now if Pyro will let me back in... I can test these 50's on the rest of the plane sets.



------------------
O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly!  Fly to Fight!  Fight to Live!"

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2000, 11:17:00 AM »
"Have you noted whether Mustangs you shoot up take less damage than a Spitfire or Macchi does?"

Good lord; yes. The only plane a mustang can kill with a snapshot in this sim is another mustang. Fin comes right off.

Hang
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

SC-GManMP

  • Guest
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2000, 12:55:00 PM »
It just so happens that the P-51 is my favorite, but recently have had to switch to the F4u-1c just to be able to survive the first 3 minutes of an engagement.  I am by no means an ace, or a master gunner... but i'll be damned if that paper-mache pony is gonna be tolerated for very long.

Lobby whoever we need to... but fix my bird cuz she just ain't competing in the AH arena.


------------------
Garrett "SC-GManMP" Pella
Skeleton Crew, "E" Flight

Offline DoctorYO

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2000, 02:25:00 PM »
Im not a usual mustang pilot but I give it a try some more...


That large TOD film that Udie recorded at Lephturn's Aero; that stang was me... I took alot of hits and still ditched...

All my other deaths in stang were becuase  attacking bombers too slow or something.. augered a few to but from what I know, I think 109 is less sturdy than a p51..

just my opinion..


regards,


DoctorYO
JG-2


Offline bloom25

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1675
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2000, 05:00:00 PM »
I've flown the stang a time or two myself.  (Almost exclusively before tour 3.)  That rudder is balsa wood, I'm telling you.  I've also seen some very interesting things happen while shooting at a p51.  About 2 weeks ago I saw a p51 below me at low speed.  I split-s'ed behind him and opened fire at 400 yds away.  I saw 2 pings from my FE, and then all of his tail came off, putting him into a straight up orientation, followed by the wings separating about 2 seconds later.  He then proceeded to lawn-dart backwards into the ground.  (I wish I would have filmed it, but it always seems that turning on the recorder brings certain death with it.  Ex. Stupidity Awards thread.   )
Hangtime, I agree with you, the stang appears to be pretty weak to me.  But that's just my opinion.

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2000, 07:09:00 PM »
Thanks gents.. I appreciate all your honest impressions regarding it's tail and wing collapse (or lack therof) when hit while flying in it; and your observations when slicing the fins off P51's when flying against it.

This is the kinda stuff we need to present to Pyro to make him aware of the condition.

Keep 'em commin.  

As a note: The A37/NA51 thru P51B had no dorsal.. structuraly; an even weaker configuration than the D models. Yet I can find no refrence to absurdly weak fins (or wings) being repeatedly blown away to enemy fire in ANY configuration of the Mustangs flown in combat.

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Fishu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3789
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2000, 08:01:00 PM »
Spitfire has alot weaker tail than P-51..
Like I've said before, spitfire loses horizontal stab with one direct hit into there. (I've experienced it, I've done it for several)

What comes for P-51, I have not noticed any one single problem with its durability or guns (well, inline engine might only problem)
I have done very well 8 kill sorties in a P-51 out of flying enemies, even when having just 2 guns left.
Only thing it needs, is to cool up your wrecking patience and wait for close & good shot.

Also, I have taken some beating in P-51, have flown it few times home with some part missing.
In 109 I can't say that same, it takes couple hits from cannons or so and chopchop..
One damage is much more lethal in 109. (Ie. it can't land without wingtip, like p51 does, even without both wingtips)

Spitfire loses tail parts easily also. (stabs)

N1K2.. thats one tough bastard I say.
F4u also.

C.205 is also almost like 109, you can't really fly it for long without a wingtip (Ack once chopped both wingtips, I had to ditch because even 15 MAN did make it roll due to torque. I had to roll it home on the earth level)

What we have here, is that P-51 takes fairly damage among these other planes, with less minuses from damage, being alot more flyable than other planes.

Maybe I do something wrong in P-51 compared to some of you others, who complains about guns being weak and plane being fragile...
but I feel it as fairly good at the moment.

NOTE: ONE PING that you hear MIGHT be 10 HITS!

So if you get lined up 200 yards front of enemy plane, he dumps 20 hits withing very short time on you, you'll hear 2 pings.
One thing you can do is to have code adjusted.

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2000, 09:40:00 PM »
I've noticed the glass vert stab of the P-51 but for the life of me as many times as I've been shot down, I still can't tell any difference in ability to absorb damage from one fighter to another.  The only real difference is between radial engines and liquid cooled, radials run longer after getting damaged.  

Same with killing, all  fighters seem to go down with about the same  number of pings.  

In WB the 190 seems to absorb a lot of damage where the Zero disintegrates if you look at it hard.  Here I just can't tell any difference.

--ra--

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2000, 10:07:00 AM »
What if HTC hasn't gotten around to doing individual damage modeling for each plane-type as yet? They've been pretty busy...

We'd all look pretty silly pointing out these perceived differences then, wouldn't we?

...and HT and Pyro would be reading this thread every morning with their coffee and ROFLTAO to get the day off to a good start...

hey, it _could_ be true  
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Fishu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3789
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2000, 08:58:00 PM »
They have done damage models for each plane, but they're still working on more accurate models, what I am aware of..

What I heard, they're going to model strenghts etc. stuff of different kind of armour materials for the planes still..
For my guess, we're currently running with planes that all has same armour, but which uses "hitpoint" modelling... (each bullet is ### amount of damage, then part gets enough ## and it breaks)

Can't wait for the model how different material absorbs damage   .. or whatever its called eh..

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2000, 10:34:00 PM »
Well, how about it Pyro? HT?

We all love the game..we're not going to run away over the damage model.

So, do all planes have their own model yet?

What's the current status?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2000, 09:25:00 PM »
Hang looks at calander. looks at watch. looks at date on first post.. looks back at calander.

(sound of crickets)

Well?? Pyro? HiTech?? Wuzzup?

Hang
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline BaneX

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Time to fix the paper stang?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »
Ok I have to agree with Hangtime on this one even though I come into the thread a little late. I fly the 51 exclusively and to tell you the truth that vertical stab is paper. Now granted one ping we here may be in fact more than one round, but 75% of my deaths are when I hear one ping and all of a sudden my vertical stab is not there anymore and I'm falling. In combat.. I tend to chase down a 51 because I KNOW for certain that a quick 1 sec burst into that tail is gonna kill it. I really do think they need to toughen up the tail and wings sections just a little bit. Now I go for HO's in a 51 because I have a better chance of not taking critical damage to my plane. Just my 2 cents on the matter, but believe me is frustrating to hear that one ping (5rounds?) and watch the plane nose up cause your vert sta is gone.




------------------
BaneX
=357th Pony Express=
"Need a package delivered? Call the Pony Express"