Author Topic: Late War Uberplanes  (Read 1156 times)

SpyHawk

  • Guest
Late War Uberplanes
« on: July 03, 2000, 09:06:00 AM »
Just weighing in on the late war (prop)Uberplanes debate.

I say give the Luftwaffe their Dora-9.
I say give the RAF their Spit XIV.
But I also say
Give the Japanese their Ki-100.
Give the USN/MC their F4U-4 (let the player choose between cannon and MG armament in the hangar).

Offline indian

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2000, 10:39:00 AM »
F8F  

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Member Of The 1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Everthing else is just Second place.
Indian's Homepage

funked

  • Guest
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2000, 11:17:00 AM »
Ki-100 was not superior in performance to the Ki-44 except at high altitude.  You might want a Ki-84.  

SpyHawk

  • Guest
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2000, 12:38:00 PM »
Well, that's fine. I say let the Japanese players, and/or players who fly or would fly predominantly Japanese planes choose which one they want. My only restrictions I'd say are that it would have to have been produced and entered squadron service AND seen combat.

Offline Spritle

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2000, 01:21:00 PM »
Since the Ki-84 was the 3rd most produced fighter by Japan during the war I think it more than qualifies.  

Offline Zigrat

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2000, 01:28:00 PM »
No Cannon armorment for the f4u-4
no
just say no
no
just say no

This way, people who choose to fly the c hog wil be outflown and run down like dogs by their f4u-4 counterparts  

Offline juzz

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
      • http://nope.haha.com
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2000, 10:28:00 PM »
Hello?! WarBirds already went through the whole "cannons on the F4U-4" thing...

And how about giving the Russians a late-war uberplane? Like the La-7R.  

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2000, 11:22:00 PM »
Wonder how many LW guys would fly a Dora with a six MG/no cannon gun pkg.  

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline SnakeEyes

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2000, 12:27:00 AM »
Most LW pilots wouldn't know what to do with 6x50s.  

"What, you mean I have to get more than three or four hits?!?  Blasphemer!!"  

------------------
SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2000, 03:36:00 AM »

Give axis fiters the same laser-modeled machine gun then ... and no one will whine  

In RL 2x12,7mm Breda-SAFAT were enuff to shoot down Hurricanes and P40s ....

 
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2000, 03:24:00 PM »
Gatt,

Perhaps you can give us a comparison of the ballistic data for the US .50 cal and the Bredas?

Muzzle Velocity, Projectile Weight, Drop at various ranges?

I'd like to see the stats side by side.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2000, 03:41:00 PM »
I don't know if the question is mischievous or not, but here are some stats. From http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html
Browning .50 M2 12.7 x 99 (48.5 g) 750 rpm  870 m/s  30 kg
MG 131  13 x 64B (34.6 g) 900 rpm  730 m/s  17 kg
Breda-SAFAT  12.7 x 81SR (36.7 g) 700 rpm  760 m/s  29 kg
UBK  12.7 x 108 (48 g)  1050 rpm  850 m/s  21 kg


Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2000, 06:02:00 PM »

Nash data are quite correct. What actually isnt possible to model is the reliability of the Breda-SAFAT. Those 12,7mm were very difficult to jam and were very reliable even in the difficult North African theatre. Moreover, the a/p, tracer, incendiary mix of the Breda was lethal and the gun looked like a lite 15mm cannon more than a simple heavy MG.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2000, 11:14:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan:

Browning .50 M2 12.7 x 99 (48.5 g) 750 rpm  870 m/s  30 kg

Breda-SAFAT  12.7 x 81SR (36.7 g) 700 rpm  760 m/s  29 kg

Nope, not mischievious.

I just figured maybe he knew something I didn't know, which is quite easy to do!

What I see here is that the Breda fires a significantly lighter slug at a significantly lower muzzle velocity.

Generally that would indicate that the .50 would significantly outperform the Breda.

However, you need the ballistic coefficients of the projectiles as well to get a more inclusive picture that would show trajectory differences as well.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Gorf

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Late War Uberplanes
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2000, 02:59:00 PM »
I say the requirements be produced and entered squadron service AND in route to the front... not nescesarily seen combat.