Top 15 Battles of WWII

[Shifty]

The threat to Hawaii and the Continental 48 posed by the loss of Midway is SERIOUSLY exaggerated. Pearl Harbor only worked because the US didn't expect it, underestimated the Japanese, and serious fumbles at the top of the US military's chain of command.

Attacking Pearl or the continental US during a full wartime situation even with Midway in Japanese hands would have been near-suicide. The distance was too great (Japan's reach was over-extended just attacking Midway as it is) and Midway wasn't equipped as a staging area for fleet operations: before the war it was mainly a refueling stop for long-range civilian flights between the US and the Far East. The Japanese didn't have many aircraft that could make it from Midway to Hawaii, (~1500 miles) much less all the way to the US West Cost (~2800 miles away). To say Hawaii would have been "bombed around the clock" is ludicrous. Any land-based bombers that attempted such a mission would have been unescorted, and we all know just how well unescorted bombers fare against concerted fighter defenses. It would have taken very little to move the US fleet out of reach, anyway. Oh, this is also forgetting to mention that we had Japan's military codes broken so would have seen it coming long before the Japanese fleet could lift anchor. At best it could have served as a Japanese submarine base and a base for long-range reconnaissance planes, but definitely not as a practical staging point for strikes on the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, much less any significant offensive further west.

THAT is the importance of Midway: What it allowed to happen. But it wasn't actually the magical pivotal point of the war history makes it out to be. We could have lost Midway and still won the war. We could have won at Midway and still LOST the war. However the strategic results of Guadalcanal (more of Japan's experienced pilots were killed in the Solomons than at Midway, as LARGE numbers of Japan's experienced pilots were trapped on their ships when the carriers went down and were pulled from the water again) were far more significant.

I'm not denying the importance of Guadalcanal and the Solomons. Far from it. I am saying though Midway was a big contributing factor to the success Solomons. Of course more of Japans experienced pilots were lost in the Solomons. The Battle of Midway was over in three days, where the Solomons was an entire campaign. Nobody can deny that. The Battle of Midway was a bad idea and was handled badly by the IJN. I agree the Solomons was much more crucial to the war. Therefore I'm convinced assets squandered at Midway could very well had helped Japan win in the Solomons in 1942/43.

[Lusche]

I've always thought that an Empire was a country that ruled over various lands/peoples (like Brandenburg being part of Prussia),

Even by that definition, Prussia wouldn't still be classified as an empire, else almost every state/country would be one. Let me quote: "Geopolitically, the term empire has denoted very different, territorially-extreme states"
Brandenburg was a part of Prussia, and it's a part of Germany today.

As for the topic, I have no "top" battles

[SuBWaYCH]

Midway - Possibly the most crucial American battle of the war. Defeat would have resulted in a very very limited carrier fleet for the USN and IJN supremacy.

Siege of Leningrad - Longest battle of the war. Had Leningrad fallen to the Germans at any point during the siege, especially towards the beginning, the Soviets in Moscow would have had to deal with a much larger German force.

Battle of Britain - Heroic defense of the British isles by the RAF against the Luftwaffe. Failure to defend the islands well would have resulted in a ground invasion by the Germans. Large turning point in the war as the USSR became allied with Britain and the U.S. as a result.

Battle of Stalingrad - Another large turning point. It was the home of the most gruesome fighting of the war, with snipers, infantry and tanks and aircraft battling it out, all in an urban setting. Defeat of the Soviets would have allowed the southern front to open up to the Germans.

Invasion of Normandy - As previously stated, it was beginning of the end for the Germans. Eventually led to the liberation of Paris by the Americans, British, and Canadiens and the push inland, all the way to western Germany.

Battle of Kursk - Largest Tank battle in history. Propelled the Soviets even deeper towards Germany and destroyed many of the German Tank brigades on the Eastern Front.

El Alamein - Turning point of N. Africa. Also defeated one of Germany's top commanders, Erwin Rommel. Victory led to the German surrender at Tunis and the invasion of Sicily.

Guadalcanal - First major offensive of the war by the US. Big victory for the Americans and gained them valuable air bases.

Coral Sea - Eliminated a large IJN Carrier strike force. Large boost of morale to American soldiers. First battle of Carrier to Carrier combat in history.

Battle of the Bulge - Ended just about all major German resistance on the western front and eliminated most of their air force.

Battle of China/Rangoon - Forgotten about a lot, was a major thorn in Japan's side throughout the war, with the USSR and US helping China and the British/Americans fighting throughout Burma. Saw the first successful use of volunteers as an effective fighting force (Flying Tigers).

Many others such as Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, Monte Casino, Anzio, Narvik and Karelia, but these stick out the most to me.

[soda72]

Midway, is ~1,300 miles from Oahu, which puts it well within range of the G3M2, G3M3, and G4M1.  If fighter cover became a problem they would have switched to night time raids.  So it is not ludicrous to say 'round the clock bombing' would have been possible.  In any case that is not what is important. The simple threat alone from Midway would have tied up several resources to defend Hawaii, whether Japan ran a successful bombing campaign or not.  Resources that would not have been available for the Solomons and Guadalcanal, which in turn could have affected their historic out comes.   In the end I think Japan would still loose the war.   But a victory at Midway might have bought them a little bit more time, and certainly would have made things more difficult for the allies. 

[Widewing]

15 is too many... It leads to generalizing. Think smaller, both in terms of battles and the number.

As an example, there were no less than 8 major engagements during the Battle of the Bulge. Each distinct and vital to Germany's success or failure. I'll discuss the most important of these later, and it was not the defense of Bastogne.

I will select three "top" battles. These are all overlooked, but very important in more than a few aspects.

The three most amazing battles in my mind would have to include the following: The engagement off of Samar, where the might of Japan's surface fleet was defeated by a tiny force of Destroyers, DEs and CVEs. This was the most incredible naval victory of the war. It was the literal end of Japanese sea power, and established that the U.S. Navy had grown into the most proficient naval power on earth. Go find a copy of "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by James Hornfischer.

The defense of Wake Island is second in my opinion. In every way, this was a serious defeat for Japan, despite occupying the island. Had the Navy commander not surrendered the garrison when he did, the remaining Japanese troops on Wake may have been driven into the sea. It's doubtful that the Japanese reserves would have been sufficient to reverse that situation and Japan would have suffered a second great humiliation in their attempt to capture Wake. No doubt they would have eventually prevailed. Yet, a defeat of that magnitude, that early in the war would have shaken the military's confidence and undermined their assumption that Americans were soft and unwilling to sacrifice.

Get a copy of "Given Up for Dead: America's Heroic Stand at Wake Island" by Bill Sloan.

My last choice would be the defense of St.Vith, during the early days of the Battle of the Bulge. The remarkable and stubborn defense of this town completely unraveled the German time table. No other engagement during the Bulge did more harm to the German plan than the defense of this little village. Eventually, the American forces were withdrawn, but the damage was already done. The north shoulder of the Bulge was secured and the entire German effort was trashed.

A great story comes out of this fight, or should I say the withdrawal. The son of American humorist Will Rogers (Will Rogers Jr.) was leading a small column of vehicles out of St. Vith. A few miles northwest, Rogers' Sherman rolled around a bend to a cross roads and came upon a lone GI digging a foxhole alongside the road. The soldier's 2.5" bazooka was resting against a tree. Stopping the tank, Rogers asked what unit the GI was with.

"I'm the 82nd Airborne", said the soldier, "and this is as far as those bastards are going."

Rogers chuckled and called down to the tank's driver. "Pull in behind that guy, we'll make our stand here."

For the record, that WAS as far as those bastards got.


My regards,

Widewing

[Curlew]

Normandy
Stalingrad
Pearl harbor
Battle over europe
midway
Battle of the atlantic
Battle of Prokhorovka
kursk
Battle of the bulge
Iwo jima
Market garden
Battle of san bernidino straigths (w00t go Gpa, helsman of the uss herrman of taffy 3)
el alimiein
scicly
battle of berlin

[Saxman]

15 is too many... It leads to generalizing. Think smaller, both in terms of battles and the number.

As an example, there were no less than 8 major engagements during the Battle of the Bulge. Each distinct and vital to Germany's success or failure. I'll discuss the most important of these later, and it was not the defense of Bastogne.

I will select three "top" battles. These are all overlooked, but very important in more than a few aspects.

The three most amazing battles in my mind would have to include the following: The engagement off of Samar, where the might of Japan's surface fleet was defeated by a tiny force of Destroyers, DEs and CVEs. This was the most incredible naval victory of the war. It was the literal end of Japanese sea power, and established that the U.S. Navy had grown into the most proficient naval power on earth. Go find a copy of "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by James Hornfischer.

The defense of Wake Island is second in my opinion. In every way, this was a serious defeat for Japan, despite occupying the island. Had the Navy commander not surrendered the garrison when he did, the remaining Japanese troops on Wake may have been driven into the sea. It's doubtful that the Japanese reserves would have been sufficient to reverse that situation and Japan would have suffered a second great humiliation in their attempt to capture Wake. No doubt they would have eventually prevailed. Yet, a defeat of that magnitude, that early in the war would have shaken the military's confidence and undermined their assumption that Americans were soft and unwilling to sacrifice.

Get a copy of "Given Up for Dead: America's Heroic Stand at Wake Island" by Bill Sloan.

Widewing

The Battle off Samar would make for a great movie. When reading the account of the Johnston I was nearly brought to tears when reading that the crew of one of the Japanese cruisers that finally put her down were so awed by the tenacity and ferocity of her attacks that they manned the rails as Johnston's crew abandoned ship. And I mean in the very audible choking up sort of way.

As for Wake, IIRC the Saratoga was actually within maybe a day or two of arriving to relieve the garrison when Kimmell was removed from command, and I THINK it was Nimitz who ordered her to turn back home. Had Kimmell not been made a scapegoat for Pearl, the Battle of Wake Island may have had an entirely different ending.

[RipChord929]

Been At this WWII hobby for a long time...
So long that I have forgotten as much as I ever learned...
Its just too big a story for 1 person to get a handle on ALL of it...

And most of the well known, and heavily documented battles, have
become a rehash for me... Nothing new, same ol stuff....

So I have been studying up on the lesser known battles of
the war...

New Guinie< never could spell that offhand!!!
Port Moresby to Buna Mission, over the Owen Stanley Mtns...

Kharkov, I II III....

Smolensk (1941) and Operation Typhoon...

Operation Crusader, and the relief of Tobruk..

Oder Crossing...

Suomusalmii.. Kind of interesting trying to find
Finnish>English translations..
EPIC lopsided battle, where the underdog WINS!!
Much written about it, IN FINNISH, LOL!!!

An English language bibliography from our AH Finnish
contingent would be really helpful!!!

  RC

[Nemisis]

Attacking Pearl or the continental US during a full wartime situation even with Midway in Japanese hands would have been near-suicide. The distance was too great (Japan's reach was over-extended just attacking Midway as it is) and Midway wasn't equipped as a staging area for fleet operations: before the war it was mainly a refueling stop for long-range civilian flights between the US and the Far East. The Japanese didn't have many aircraft that could make it from Midway to Hawaii, (~1500 miles) much less all the way to the US West Cost (~2800 miles away). To say Hawaii would have been "bombed around the clock" is ludicrous. Any land-based bombers that attempted such a mission would have been unescorted, and we all know just how well unescorted bombers fare against concerted fighter defenses

Ok, I admit you have a point. We, may have been in SOME danger if Japan had followed up the Pear Harbor attacks with a landing and had taken the islands. It would be almost impossible to loose the war with the industrial lead we had over Japan. We would have had to be dumb enough to leave the West Coast un defended and even then there is no way we would have LOST. We could have easily re-taken any land lost with how far Japan would have been over streached.