109 elevator

[Hollywood]

I have tested 3 of the 109 variants offline and notice that all behave similarly.  At around 200mph I can pull 4-5 gs positive but only -2 gs negative.  I understand that the 109 elevator was different from most AC in that it could move just as far downwards as upwards.  This gave the 109 a few tricks that the other planes couldn't follow.  In particular I would like to be able to do a Hartmann escape.  At the moment trying to do the Hartmann all I get is an outside barrel roll which is what I would expect from other AC types but not the 109.  Something to add to your FM to do list.

[MiG Eater]

There was another thread that discussed this at length, but in summary:  

It was the 109's direct fuel injected engine that allowed it to perform the negative G push over maneuvers against the early war float carb Spitfires and Hurricanes.  By the middle of the war, most fighters had pressure fed carbs or some kind of fuel injection so the engines no longer cut out from fuel starvation.  The elevators on the Me-109 were notoriously heavy above 270 knots and provided poor control harmony with the lighter ailerons and rudder.  Negative G's are uncomfortable and painful, not only from the bursting capillaries in the eyes but from the beating the head took on the canopy.  It was likely Hartmann and others used the push over as a last ditch surprise maneuver to disappear below the nose of the later war aircraft rather than using a long gone advantage in 109's design.

MiG

[janneh]

Yep, You're right.
I believe Hristo stated this issue months(?) ago, still not corrected.

[funked]

Even if the elevator can move the same amount in the negative  direction and in the positive, remember that the hard work of turning is done by the wing.  And the wing does not give as much lift for negative gees as for positive.

[Hristo]

Flzing 109 is constant trimming, IMHO   Even though I consider the timing and flight speed essential for negative Gs usage, and not the elevator response, here's my opinion on AH 109 elevator:


109 can push decent negative Gs, but it has to be trimmed all the way down. Other planes can push more negative Gs from level flight trim condition.

109 has much slower trim response than other planes. Maybe its trim tabs travel longer way, but I am not so sure, the elevator response would be better then, right ?

My question is: Were 109 trim wheels harder/longer to use in real life than the trim of P 51, for example ? The AH trimming suggests so. Not to mention, P 51 (for example, again) requires quite less trim than 109.

[DoctorYO]

On several occasions I have read that the 109 was a easy to trim aircraft requiring 1-2 full rotatations of a wheel in the cockpit.

Now that given a competent pilot could trim aircraft in say 2-3 secs as opposed to the current 3-5 secs it takes to trim..  Also note I agree completely with Hristo, the 109 is more dependent on trim than any other aircraft.  Most aircraft in the world can still proform manuevers out of trim, in AH the 109 can't...

A quick solution that would help all planes is a trim preset keys ...  This would alow say 3/4's up trim all bound to one key or action. Also the same for neutral trim and diving trim that could be applied in a preset that takes say 2 secs... I have a half bellybutton solution now.  bind your trim to your joystick...  I have mine set to my hat. It helps very much...


My 2 cents


DoctorYO

[Vermillion]

Doctor Yo, another solution is if you have a programmable joystick or throttle.

This way you can "preset" a button, to give "10 clicks elavator up".

Seen alot of people do it this way.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Hristo]

Just tested a bit offline:

A brief test of the time needed from full down trim to full up trim:

109G-10    8 seconds  
P 51D       6 seconds
Spitfire     6-7 seconds

BTW, I have always had trim mapped to one of my F22 hat switches, using /H instruction (simulates button constantly pressed). I don’t think the applying 10 key sequence to a button would increase trim speed response.

As for 109 requiring constant trimming, it just adds to the challenge of flying it