A-8, A-5, Dora

[Hristo]

Fw 190A-5 and Fw 190A-8 are so much different, they seem like two totally different planes.

In A-5 I feel as safe as in F-16, while in A-8 any co-E plane makes me look for the way out. For example, in A-8 I stand no chance against well flown Hog, but that same Hog can do nothing against my A-5.

My question is : What can we expect from the Dora ?

Compared to A-5 and A-8, what are:

speed
dive,
acceleration,
roll,
wingloading,
powerloading,
sustained turn,
zoom,
climb,
turning circle,
E retention ?

Yes, I want to know everything !

Funked ?

[funked]

D-9 airframe is the same as the A-8 except forward of the firewall and the small insert between the rear fuselage and empennage.  Weight is very close to A-8 if my books are right.

With MW 50 it has at (at sea level) something like 300 more hp than the A-8 (with boost override).  So climb and acceleration performance should be signficantly better, probably similar to A-5.  Top speed performance should be pretty close to the P-51 at most altitudes.  But when the MW 50 runs out it is back to the same horsepower as the A-5, so climb and acceleration will be more sedate, and top speed will be not much better than A-8.  It's still a single-stage supercharger, so the performance will drop off as you get near 20-25k.

About the same wingloading as A-8, but with more power and a longer fuselage.  I would be out of my depth to predict what effect this will have on turn performance.  Probably not much.

So you won't be winning many turning battles with this plane, but when the MW 50 injection is engaged it should be one of the fastest planes in the game, and a very good climber.  Slightly less performance than the G-10 but the extra MG 151/20 and high-speed maneuverability will make it considerably more deadly.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-06-2000).]

[juzz]

The difference between A-8 and D-9 is 2 less cannon, and the Jumo 213 engine, which is better at high altitude and is installed in a smaller cowling, giving less drag. It weighs about the same.

So I guess:

Speed: Comparible to Mustang. Better than A series at all altitudes.
Dive: Better than A-8(less drag).
Acceleration: Better than A-8, probably less than A-5 at low speeds.
Roll: Same as A series.
Wingloading: Same as A-8.
Powerloading: Same as A-8 at low altitude, but better at high altitude due to Jumo engine.
Sustained turn: Better than A-8(less drag).
Zoom: Better than A-8(less drag).
Climb: At low alt equal to A-8, better at high altitude.
Turning circle: Probably slightly better than A-8.
E retention: better than A-5 and A-8.

The longer nose would make the forward view worse than the radial engined Fw 190.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Hristo]

Currently A-5 is jack of all trades, capable of fighting any style (of course, not TnB with zekes at low speed).

Is it possible that A-5 will actually be better allround plane than D-9 ?

Sure D-9 can stay out of touch from most planes here, but caught slow on the deck, is it as helpless as A-8 ? In that case I might stay with A-5.

Juzz, should't powerloading be closer to A-5 than to A-8 ? Isn't D-9 actually lighter than A-8, with more HP ?

How would you rate the dive, compared to P-51D ?

How would longer fuselage affect the turn ability, generally, please ?

Can we expect sustained turn and circle near that of A-5 ?


Or we get the ack running WB Dora ?  

[Lioter]

nevermind

[This message has been edited by Lioter (edited 07-06-2000).]

[RAM]

Speed: higher than in A series, near the mustang speed, but a bit lower

Dive: same as A series

Acceleration: Better than A series over 5K, between A5's and A8's under it, but near the A5.

Roll: Same as A series.

Wingloading: Bit lower than A8.

Powerloading: Better than A series over 10K, under it, again falls between A5 and A8, only slightly worse than A5, tho.
Sustained turn: Seems it will be comparable to that of A8. AKSwulfe and me were having a good discussion about this matter some time ago. Seems that the better powerloading and wingloading dont affect tunrning ability because the D9's aerodinamycs (tail farther to the wing than in A8). So I dunno this one.

Zoom: Better than A series as the sustained cimbrate is better.

Climb: over 4K should outclimb easyly A series.

Turning circle: as I said before, dunno...

E retention: same as A series.


All in all we have a plane that turns like an A8, but has a much better acceleration,climbrate and speed. The only thing that I'd miss in D9 would be outer cannons (I am already missing them in A5), and the engine vulnerability (inline instead of radial).

For me this means a much more formidable aircraft than A5. Less maneouverable but able to Boom and Zoom all day long.

Of course for many people D9 would be like a squeak...few people are used to handle a heavyweight like A8, and D9 is only slightly lighter.

BTW my estimation comes from taking a BMW801 as a 1750hp engine, with a 2000hp output at WEP in A8 and 1900 in A5.
Jumo engine rated at 1775hp and 2250 with MW50 WEP.

For me the 2100hp figure for the BMW801 in WEP is only applicable with MW50. and no 190 has MW50 in AH.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

The D9 weighs about 200 lb lighter than the A8 fully loaded.

The D9 is '4 longer and '1 shorter.

The 213A-1 has a max hp of 2,240 with MW 1 at 21k.

D9 climbs to 19k in 7 minutes 6 seconds.
A8 climbs to 19k in 9 minutes 6 seconds.

D9s max speed is 429 mph at 21,650 ft and 357 at SL.

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Stab/Jagdgeschwader 26
'Abbeville Kids'

 

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-06-2000).]

[SpyHawk]

What's all this talk about the missing outter cannons on the A-5?

Last time I flew one all I had to do was pick the cannon option in the hangar and take off...

[Karnak]

No Fw190D-9 in AH.

Imagine trying to take one on in a Spitfire MkIX.

Its faster at all altitudes, particularly down low where most fights happen in AH.

It rolls MUCH better at all speeds than the Spit.

It accerates better.

It has more than twice the ammo load.

It holds its energy better.

Its WEP (MW50) lasts longer.

Its high speed handling is better.

So, if you want to see an arena of nothing but Fw190D-9s, go ahead.  But in my opinion, the Fw190D-9 is too Ubėr and should only be added as a perk plane.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Nath-BDP]

If D9 is too uber then so is P51.

[fd ski]

First of all, Dora was more of teh high alt plane - it was deisgned to fly better at altitudes that A seriers really suffered.

Looks at climb figures posted:
7 minutes+ to 19k ?
Does anyone thing that this is a GOOD climber ?
Spitfire 9 early mark ( f ) makes it to 20k in 6 flat.
LF or HF can do it in 5 minutes.
Yak 9 should get there in less then 5 too.

Dora is like a stang. Not too impresive down low - with exception of its speed - but it shines up high. 25k-30k area.

Would it be too uber ? Don't think so.
Give me well done spit 14 and it should be no problem whatsoever.


------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Vermillion]

fd-ski, the Yak-9U as its modeled in AH climbs to 16k in 5.2 minutes, so a rough estimate of 6.2 to 6.5 minutes for a time to 19k.

Alternatively, it could have been modeled at a climb to 16k in 4.1 minutes, depending on VVS flight testing philosophy, but see the whole thread on prototype vs production in this forum, for a complete description of what I'm talking about.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[mx22]

Hahaha Karnak,

Time for your revenge had finally come I guess Now lets see how Lufwaffles will jump out of their pants acusing you of ignorance and etc.
As we Russians say: "Don't dig a hole for others, you might end up there yourself"

mx22

[SnakeEyes]

I think you can expect about 700 "uses" and then she runs out.  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
I think you can expect about 700 "uses" and then she runs out.    

So we should have lost C-Hog ages ago ?