Evil, evil HO, episode II

[gpwurzel]

A Ho? Probably, but you earned it fella, he should/would have been dead a lot earlier - but you passed the shot up. He didnt have the control to bring guns to bear on his final lift up, and to me that was a fair and square kill

Nice flying m00t, yet another film of yours added to my training archive.

thankeee sir,


Wurzel

[lazydog]

moot that was a great fight fun to watch.and i know your 1 of the better sticks in the game.that remark was because ive been acuse of that same shot being ho

[JunkyII]

HAHAHA, you took 200 muppet bantor to a new level, you were calling the shots while fighting on 200 that was very good flying on your part and bad on his, if he cant beat you while your typing on 200 to him he deserves the head on if that is one but as Del said that would be a hard one for him to make but he could get lucky with hogs being easy mode

[CAP1]

Great Fight!  The final shot is Head On but I wouldn't consider it a "HO" 

SO..........a head on isn't a ho? 

[waystin2]

SO..........a head on isn't a ho? 

Apparently not if you engage in some twisty turny first Cap.  Let me qualify myself here, I think HO'ing is A-OK.  However I only HO as a last resort.  Why you passed up the earlier kill shots I will never understand.  Good HO Moot!

[Captfish]

SO..........a head on isn't a ho? 

I should have said the final shot is Head on but not a dirty HO.

I was trying to say:
I think a HO is bad when its the initial merge, and maybe even the second merge but Once the fight is on, ITS ON! if you fly, roll, stall, or scissor through the oppoents gunsite and he takes the shot, like in this instance, then its clean. thats just my opinion.

the worst HO is the guy the sprays from 1K out and holds the trigger through the merge, especially when they pull up to hold guns on, resulting in a collision. Most Bad HOs I see are the guy that does a quick burst at 200 then extends for ever only to return and do the same thing.

[humble]

The reality is that its not a "HO". fights don't occur in 2 dimensions...in some ways this goes back to the topic I posted in the training area. M00t uses (IMO) the 110's mass for what I label a "pop up" zoom....basically low speed low alt scenario where you can use the vertical vs a "better" plane when/if you can get a short vertical...plane like the 110/mossie/A-20 can claw out just  bit extra and often hang at high AoA for an extra second or two. You can see it 2-3 times here in this fight where M00t actually reaches a controlled rotating tail slide type of move...

This is just great E management that happens to create a shot opportunity in the vertical with the bogey trying to claw up...had the F4U elected to stay low then a different shot aspect would have been generated. In this type of fight a combination of deft touch and astute use of the verticals can work wonders

[waystin2]

I want to make sure that I am understanding some of this line of thinking gentlemen.  First question: there are now "fair" HO's and "dirty" HO's?  Second, if the goal is to engage in aerial combat, passing a kill shot up like Moot did two times earlier in the fight kind of negates the combat part right?  So is this aerial combat or just a cartoon airshow with neat flying showcased?  Please understand Moot I am not hammering you, just trying to get a consistent read on folks opinions here.  Seems to me to be a bit of hair splitting on the HO comments.  Either you are nose-to-nose and fire or you are not.  Someone explain this please...

[humble]

They were never "nose to nose" ever at any time.

[waystin2]

They were never "nose to nose" ever at any time.

I concur Humble.  I watched the film and never saw a HO situation.  So why bill this as an "evil" HO, as I do not feel it was.  Also why folks are adding comments about HO's being OK after you twisty turny for a bit seems a bit self-serving.  Some even describing good HO's (is there really such a thing?) and dirty HO's (in the end, they really are all of this type). 

[moot]

H5117 called it a very weak HO, so evidently there's still players out there who see these as inarguable HO.  "Evil, evil HO" is mostly tongue in cheek.

The line between fair and unfair depends on who's involved, how the fight unfolded, and what the circumstances are outside of the fight.  Ask anyone at any given time, and you'll get as many different answers.  So it'll pretty much inevitably be hair splitting when you take all those people/answers and have em sort it all out.

Dogfighting/Airshow: To me the essence of the game is when the air combat's outcome is still up in the air.  It's true that it's not completely natural to extend the fight despite kill opportunities, but then IMO that's a minor price for a longer dose of that essence.  I'm not just sand bagging in that fight.  He had relatively plenty of room to turn the tables and win it until the very end.  What matters most is that both actors are in a position where the one that tries hardest and deals with his means the most efficiently or cleverly.  If that means taking a handicap, then IMO that's not fake or artificial.  Those moments when everything is hanging in balance are what the game is all about, for me.
All the better if there's room enough for me to play toreador and type "bang bang" while dodging an opponent in a better plane, and still come out on top. 

This sound clip is just about exactly how I see it.

[R 105]

It ain't a HO it is the John Wayne Merge. Face to face guns blazing.

[ink]

I cant believe you did not take that very first shot   

otherwize sweet control.

[DrDea]

It ain't a HO it is the John Wayne Merge. Face to face guns blazing.

Didnt watch the film did ya?

[JunkyII]

Didnt watch the film did ya?

I think hes saying his opinion of a ho is what most call jousting that sound clip brings a whole new meaning to Aces High, we have to be ninjas of the skies