Axis need a real Bomber, Preferably mid - late war.

[Karnak]

RAM and the others are correct.  Speed is VERY important to bombers, thats why the Mosquito and Ar234 are so nice.  Speed is good.  Durability is nice too.  As a fair compromise between the two we should all demand the B-36.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Jack55:
This site gives a 20,000 LB bomb load for a B-17G. Looks like AH has short changed the fortress.
 http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/history/boeing/b17.html

After you look into the bombbay.. you'll realise how small it is.
Try fit that 20000lb in there  

[Jack55]

I look at the wings and see room for all kinds of junk.
 http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/b17-017.jpg

[Staga]

I knew USA continued to develope V-1 as a battlefield missile, Maybe those are them ?

[Staga]

Yep: http://www.spaceline.org/history/6.html

[Nimits]

I am  quire curious why everyone thinks the LW needs to have a heavy bomber in this game. In reality, it seems that nations should be represented with the aircraft for whic they are known, and that were widely used.

In otherwords, the LW was armed primarily with fighters and tac bombers. In this field, it was the best in the world in the early war, and maintained technical equality with the Allies throughout the war. Yet in the area of heavy or medium bombers, they were woefully inadaquate, the JU-88 being the best one that was used in large numbers. If you all want more Axis bombers, stick to the ones that were used, such as the He-111, or the JU-87 (especially the tank-busters).

It seems to me that some people are trying to manufacture something hat did not exist. The LW was not a bomber force like the US, Britain, and USSR, and I do not believe it should be represented as such. Instead, include those fighters and tactical bombers for which it was famous. While I might understand a case to include the He-177 as an aircraft without alot of perk points, but it seems that it would be better to first be sure that those aircraft, both Allied and Axis, which are more representative of their respective nations are included first. THus, it would seem Mosquitoes and B-24s would be better choices for bomber aircraft than any rare LW bomber.

[Karnak]

Nimits,

Its a pissing contest.

"Ours" are better, so "they" complain.

If it were the other way around, say the Allies just had the Wellington B.X and the Germans had an He177, Do217 and the Japanese had an H8K2 "Emily" and B6N.  The Allied fans would be squeaking and moaning just like the Axis fans are now.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[Staga]

IMHO RAF was known for their Hurricanes and Lancasters so please remove Tempest and Spit from AH.
Also Yanks dont need B-17/B-26 because only bomber I know from states is Bolo.
Hmm it looks like I don't know toejam doesn't it  

Should this be the way people are selecting new planes to AH? Because how I feel?


Small info-pack just for you Nimits:
1161 He-177 Greifs were produced + 8 prototypes and most of them were in service in eastern front and some were bombing London. So it really saw service FYI.

Edit:
Rare bomber with more than 1000 produced?
LOL we got another clown here.

[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 05-10-2001).]

[Glasses]

Or just give the 190F8 the full load out it carried including 2 underwing fuel tanks!

------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
9./Jg54
   
Besser tot als rot!



[This message has been edited by Glasses (edited 05-11-2001).]

[juzz]

"Rare bomber with more than 1000 produced?
"

B-17: 12,000+
B-24: 18,000+
B-29: 2,000+
Wellington: 11,000+
Lancaster: 7,000+
Pe-2: 10,000+
He 111: 11,000+
Ju 88A: 7,000+

Maybe not rare - but maybe there were some other, more common bombers in WW2 too.      

[-=Silo=-]

 

Originally posted by Nimits:
I am  quire curious why everyone thinks the LW needs to have a heavy bomber in this game. In reality, it seems that nations should be represented with the aircraft for whic they are known, and that were widely used.

In otherwords, the LW was armed primarily with fighters and tac bombers. In this field, it was the best in the world in the early war, and maintained technical equality with the Allies throughout the war. Yet in the area of heavy or medium bombers, they were woefully inadaquate, the JU-88 being the best one that was used in large numbers. If you all want more Axis bombers, stick to the ones that were used, such as the He-111, or the JU-87 (especially the tank-busters).

It seems to me that some people are trying to manufacture something hat did not exist. The LW was not a bomber force like the US, Britain, and USSR, and I do not believe it should be represented as such. Instead, include those fighters and tactical bombers for which it was famous. While I might understand a case to include the He-177 as an aircraft without alot of perk points, but it seems that it would be better to first be sure that those aircraft, both Allied and Axis, which are more representative of their respective nations are included first. THus, it would seem Mosquitoes and B-24s would be better choices for bomber aircraft than any rare LW bomber.

If you stop and think about it, a B-24 is not that much different from a B-17, is it? Sure it carries more lbs of bombs but they are for all intents and purposes roughly the same.

Not only would adding Axis 4 engined and two engines be interesting, they bring to the table more interesting OPTIONS to work with.

HE-177 for instance would sling Guided Missiles and Radio control bombs! Imagine what an Anti Shipping A/C this could be! The bloody thing could even dive bomb!

H8K2 , a Patrol Bomber floatplane that could be sortied from Ports, and was equipped with a Ship search radar as well as twin torps and very nice bomb loadouts as well. Think about this, surface search radar! A craft which could locate fleets and attack of vector other fighters to attack!


I really think this would add some nice flavor to the game and get away from the same old, same old. They would be interesting planes that bomber pilots would get a real kick out of to fly as well. Can ANY Allied bomber fill the above roles with accompanying weapons systems? I doubt it.

Get out the Allied rut in thinking and bring more options!

[hazed-]

Ive got so say although the Axis had these wonder weapons they were very unreliable(wire control) and sometimes rarely used(Komet etc) and this should be remembered.

BUT this is NO reason not to introduce them.Let us try them and then decide.
The way i see it allies had the numbers with sometimes average sometimes fantastic equiptment.
Germany inreasingly relied on technology to try to even the playing field as numbers were well against them.most of the weapons developed were not suitable or were so advanced they ran out of time before they were used.
In any game the LW should reflect this i think.Allied stuff is often solid and built for the job with no fancy extras.The axis had few planes with sometimes unbeleivable gadgets bristleing on them!     Often this overloaded the airframes and degraded performance terribly but crazy hitler insisted on their use none the less.
They tried airial bombing, rockets, 6 barreled 20mm cannons thats fired up or down in a shotgun pattern triggered by photoelectric cells, ju88s with obliquely fireing guns, flak cannons in ju88s, even  chemical clouds released to cover the screens of the bombers.Many were absolutely useless but still they WERE used.
Axis's main weapons,vehicles or threats were the secret weapons.
There should be that element of fear of what they will come up with next shouldnt there?    
Imagine how that pilot felt when he saw the first jet with huge cannons firing at him!
Im all for a fairly distributed planeset among different countries but i do think LW's set ,whilst quite numerous dont really reflect the diversity of their arsenal of equiptment.
As i see AH at the moment the Allied aircraft seem to get the planes that were developed after the planes the Axis get.
Allies get p51d and a year later axis get the dora.allies have one of the very late b17s and b26 and axis get a ju88A4 which is one of the first varients.Not saying im ungratefull! I love the ju88 and use it often despite its unsuitability to the MA planes everywhere type enviroment.I just think the next axis introduction should be a fairly substantial one to reflect the shock the LW must have caused each time the stakes were upped.
 

------------------
Hazed
9./JG54

btw I am bitterly opposed to nazism or anything like it.I dont idealise the Nazi regeigm so please dont attack with namecalling etc  

If the devil drove a porsche would you hate the car?



[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 05-18-2001).]

[Lephturn]

Yep, the Axis powers need a good bomber.  Axis does not mean LW.  They LW have had a pile of planes in the last couple of versions.  methings a Japanese or Italian BUFF is long overdue.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Staga]

If it can carry +3000kg bombs, have speed +450kmh and have a decent defensive armament it's welcome IMO. If not you can fly it.

[Dowding]

 

Im all for a fairly distributed planeset among different countries but i do think LW's set ,whilst quite numerous dont really reflect the diversity of their arsenal of equiptment.

You talk as if AH is a done deal, as if all the planesets are fleshed out and the only thing missing are the barely used Axis weapons. How can this be true if you look at the Japanese, Russian and Italian planesets?

 

As i see AH at the moment the Allied aircraft seem to get the planes that were developed after the planes the Axis get.

Ta-152, Arado, Dora all late war planes and you still complain?

You like the late-war, rare and barely used stuff in this thread, but in another recent thread you said a categorical 'no' to the prospect of the Allies getting the same.

 

Allies get p51d and a year later axis get the dora.allies have one of the very late b17s and b26 and axis get a ju88A4 which is one of the first varients.

A convenient choice of examples without mentioning the Ta-152 or Arado.  

 

I just think the next axis introduction should be a fairly substantial one to reflect the shock the LW must have caused each time the stakes were upped.

'Substantial' in what way? Number of LW plane models introduced? You had one release virtually devoted to LW machines, I think it would be more fair to concetrate on plane-sets other than the LW or US.

Staga wrote:

 

LOL we got another clown here.

I thought Nimits post had nothing in it which deserved that kind of response. It was measured and articulate, to me. Or is it because he doesn't happen to share your opinion?