Rise of Flight

[Die Hard]

Proof of ownership is not unique to the software industry.  Proof of ownership is a much used requirement in today's society; real estate, banking, insurance, etc. Every time I get pulled over by the cops I have to prove I own my car.

[Skuzzy]

Proof of ownership is not unique to the software industry.  Proof of ownership is a much used requirement in today's society; real estate, banking, insurance, etc. Every time I get pulled over by the cops I have to prove I own my car.

I do not have to show proof of ownership of my car if I get stopped by the police.  That will vary from state to state.  If I do not like the law, I can work to have it changed, as can you.  What recourse is available to have DRM changed?

The only one I know is to vote with your wallet.

[Eagler]

so far the game feels like IL2 with slower planes and a terrible view system - just to name a few of the negatives...

[Die Hard]

I do not have to show proof of ownership of my car if I get stopped by the police.  That will vary from state to state.  If I do not like the law, I can work to have it changed, as can you.  What recourse is available to have DRM changed?

The only one I know is to vote with your wallet.

True.

[Ack-Ack]

Well, anyway, you fly the thing. How is it? I did the old Red Baron, then the online Red baron 3D, then the knights of the sky and some more, as well as dawn of aces.
WWI sims really got me, so I'm quite curious about the play

DRM aside, it is a very fun game, the attention to detail is rather impressive.


ack-ack

[Angus]

Apples and oranges. I get spam too, but I've never had a serial invalidated. If you by carelessness or ignorance allow hackers access to your computer so they can steal your serials/account info you get what you deserve.

I run two computers which many people access, so from the keyboard end, I can expect anything to happen.
However, one is still running (and goes online on) Winme OS, and has been since the autumn of 2000. The other one is on WinXP and has run on it since 2003 or 2004, - not sure.
Neither have been HD formatted since purchase, nor removed for service.
I did have some ID getting hacked though, as well as having problems with serial numbers on boxed games. That leaves you with emailing with the company and in the meantime you're out of the game.
The absolute best system I ever ever came close to is......Aces High 

[Die Hard]

Then it would be reckless of you to use anyone's proprietary software on those computers. Remember that buying proprietary software (as opposed to freeware) is not like buying most other products, like a toaster or a car. You do not own the software you buy, you own the right to use it under license. That user license agreement (ULA) specifies how you are allowed to use the software, and all ULA's that I've read includes a clause about protecting their property/intellectual property from being stolen. If through negligence you fail to do that (and you seem pretty negligent with your computers), you have violated the ULA and the proprietor can revoke your license to use their software. Many people forget that they don't actually own the software they buy, they own a license to use the software. And with that license comes rules and responsibility... Even liability.

[Skuzzy]

Apples and oranges. I get spam too, but I've never had a serial invalidated. If you by carelessness or ignorance allow hackers access to your computer so they can steal your serials/account info you get what you deserve.

So when someone barges into your house and kills your family, it is your fault for not having a steel vault door instead of a deadbolts wood door.  I realize that is extreme.

Basically, as I understand what you are saying, if someone is ignorant of most things related to the actual operation of a computer, they should not be buying games to play on it.  If the DRM is subject to being hacked/stolen/replicated, shouldn't it be the responsibility of the game company to provide all the information required to remove ignorance from the equation?  It is, after all, their DRM that is the issue.  Simply stating if you all the software to be hacked/stolen, you are responsible should not be enough, in light of how a company can turn off your software if they feel you have violated the rules.  We could go back and forth about this.  The evils and good of various things, ad infinitum.

If they are going to hold someone to the ULA, then that ULA should be on display before you purchase the software.  I have taken software back and gotten refunds due to the ULA.  I had to threaten legal action to get the money back, but I got it back.

I still believe all this makes it more difficult for the legitimate end user who only wants to play a game and does nothing to thwart a hacker or pirate.  If I really believed it to be a good thing, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  Unfortunately, I am not ignorant of computers, which probably puts me outside of who they market to.

Hmm.  Be ignorant and get what you deserve, or not be ignorant and not buy it to begin with.  Interesting, from a marketing perspective.

[Die Hard]

I think I answered your questions in my last post; I must have posted it just before you did.

To answer your murder analogy, though I'm not happy with comparing lives to licensed property: No, I wouldn't be negligent or ignorant not to turn my home into a fortress. However, I would be negligent if I left my kids alone at home with the doors unlocked in a neighborhood known for violent crime. Just as I would be negligent to use someone's proprietary software on a computer without reasonably adequate security measures.

[Skuzzy]

It appears we were cross-posting. I saw your post and tried to get mine in line with it.

Sometimes near real-time can be a pain.

I'll just say this.  I am voting with my wallet as I disagree with the implementation of DRM here.  That is my personal opinion and one I will not concede.

[Die Hard]

Fair enough, and I'm glad you do. I wish more people would take their consumer responsibilities as seriously as you do. I probably will buy this game, but then I do find this DRM reasonable unlike you do.

[jdbecks]

It appears we were cross-posting. I saw your post and tried to get mine in line with it.

Sometimes near real-time can be a pain.

I'll just say this.  I am voting with my wallet as I disagree with the implementation of DRM here.  That is my personal opinion and one I will not concede.

I second that, despite the fact I do want to play it as I like ww1 era aircraft etc, I just hope enough are also put of by it so it deos not become the norm. With my very limited knowledge and experience with I.T, someone will be able to pirate the software at somepoint so the DRM is not full proof..its inevitable one side brings out a new technology, the other side counters it.

another thing is ( I know sim hq is like the un offical forums) but the lack of forum posts on the offical website also puts me off for now, but do not get me wrong..the game looks fantastic, I do want to try it..but I do not like the DRM.

 

[Russian]

\
another thing is ( I know sim hq is like the un offical forums) but the lack of forum posts on the offical website also puts me off for now, but do not get me wrong..the game looks fantastic, I do want to try it..but I do not like the DRM.

 

They are releasing, soon, new website that will look more presentable and that includes web-shop. Hopefully forum will be update so well. 

[jdbecks]

I second that, despite the fact I do want to play it as I like ww1 era aircraft etc, I just hope enough people are also put of by DRM so it deos not become the norm. With my very limited knowledge and experience with I.T, someone will be able to pirate the software at somepoint so the DRM is not fool, proof..its inevitable one side brings out a new technology, the other side counters it.

another thing is ( I know sim hq is like the un offical forums) but the lack of forum posts on the offical website also puts me off for now, but do not get me wrong..the game looks fantastic, I do want to try it..but I do not like the DRM.

 

[allaire]

If they are going to hold someone to the ULA, then that ULA should be on display before you purchase the software.

This statement right there in most countries will invalidate the EULA on most if not all software.  A person can't be bound by a contract if they can't read it before the perchase of whatever the EULA covers.  As I have said before most EULA prohibit copying of any kind but US law says that you can make 1 backup copy for personal use. 

The funniest thing about this kind of DRM is that when people says that it is impossible/improbable to crack it goes from being a low priority for hackers.  Some hackers take it as if the gauntlet has been thrown down.  Plus it makes for the kind of challenge that some hackers look for.  If anything the DRM will make a target out of something that would have been way under the crackers notice.  Remember what happened to Apple when they ran the Mac commercials that stated that "Macs don't get viruses."

@jdbecks:  If you are talking about Dev responses on the forums they are starting to communicate better.  If you're talking about the general posts then there are plenty of them.

One of the best thing that I have seen recently on forums about NeoQB is that the whole "small developers with a shoestring budget" was hit with the fact bat.  Someone found a couple of business in Russia that had NeoQB do some work for them.  I'm not saying they had a stake in RoF just saying that the whole shoestring budget argument goes out the proverbial window after that.