Rating system for AH fighters

[Lephturn]

Ram:  And the beat goes on....

For the rest:

The P47-D25/D30 in my not so humble opinion.  

1. Speed = 4 Not the Fastest, but close to the top. Not great at low altitudes, but over 15k it really shines.

2. Climb = 1 A rock thrown by a 6 year old will out-climb the Jug.  Heck the Panzer will prolly out-climb it given a running start.

3. Dive = 4 It goes toward earth REAL well and it has the high-speed handling to deal with the strain.  I'd put the Pony and the Hog right there with it though, and it's initial dive is not great due to slow accelleration.

4. Durability = 5 Robert S Johnson vs. a 190's MG's.  'nuff said.

5. Range = 4 With drop tanks it is as good as the Hog.  Only the Pony will out-range it by much.

6. Armament = 4 Not cannons but 8 fifties.  One of the best gun sets in the game, just not quite as leathal as the cannon birds.

7. Ordinance load = 4 Only the Hog has more.  The overload ammo setting puts it up there with the Hog, but hurts performance a bit.

8. High speed handling = 4 Handles really well at speed, but not as maneuverable as a high speed Hog or Pony.

9. Low speed handling = 2 It's general low-speed turning capability stinks, but it's fairly stable and controleable.  Not the worst, but pretty bad.

10. Multi-purpose = 3 Good for attack and high-altitude escort with decent range.  Not a good choice for an interceptor or air superiority fighter.

Total= 35



------------------
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[straffo]

 

Well, it seems my formula is an absolute disaster  (Image removed from quote.)

Muhahaha  
Needed a good laught after an awfull day THANKS  

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by straffo:

Well, it seems my formula is an absolute disaster   (Image removed from quote.)

Muhahaha   (Image removed from quote.)
Needed a good laught after an awfull day THANKS   (Image removed from quote.) [/b]

Dont worry straffo, if you want I'm able to develop even uglier formulas  

[Ripsnort]

Leph,, the P47D-30 with 50% internal vs F4U-1D 50% internal will outclimb the F4U-1D, I would rank it higher than 1, probably 3.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
RAM,

I am basing this on Real life only. I don't want AH numbers. AH is supposed to be simulating RL. Not the other way around. I'm surprised on your evaluation of the FW190A5. I would rate it much higher. Especially if you add E and acceleration to the mix. And I would definitely give it's guns a solid 4.

F4UDOA, I gave my puntuations only and exclusively on an AH environment, but without its numbers. In Real life Fw190A5 was the best fighter of its moment (early 1943) in the world. But here we fight with late 1944 planeset, and so I give the comparisons with other planes in AH.

For instance in speed I give a 5 to the P51D and 109G10, and a 1 to the C202. The 190A5 in that cathegory,and compared with the planes in this planeset, fits into a 2. and so I give Speed=2. Using real life numbers, or not, if you compare planes with planes, you get the numbers I give.

The weapons in fw190A5 definitely are far to be worth a 4.
 The MGFF are not worth be loaded, and the 7.92mm are pure toejam.I you point 4 to the Fw190A8, I can agree (tho I think its a bit lower than 4), but surely not in a 190A5 especially if we dont have the HISTORICAL cannon selection switch.

Acceleration in fw190A5 under 7K is good, almost as good as a Spit IX's. Over it it turns into crap. I'd give it a 3.

E-keeping? Fw190A5? a 3. and I am generous.

BTW I'd like to see your evaluation on the Spitfire IX. Just curious and I'll tell you why after you post it.


Lepthurn, the beat what? if you have nothing to say why do you name me?...bah...nonsenses  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Hooligan]

Okay.  First of all, we are talking about the real world and not the MA correct?  Different things matter in different environments.  High altitude performance and long range matter a great deal in the real world and very little in the AH MA.  Also the rating probably still needs to be contextual (i.e. a good aircraft in Western Europe may be a bad aircraft in the South Pacific).

Other factors:

Carrier Capability
Rough Airfield suitability (very important in Russia and the Pacific)
Cockpit visibility (the old bubble canopy metric)
Also there is wide variation at low and high altitude between speed, climb etc... performance ratings


Also rather than rating each aircraft feature on a scale of 1-5 I suggest the following:

-3 Horrible (severely compromises the aircraft's usefulness as a fighter)
0 Substandard
2 Average
3 Good
4 Excellent

Here is an example to illustrate the Horrible rating.  Suppose that there was an F4U variant armed with 2 .30 cal machine guns.  Using the 1-5 rating system from F4UDOA's example this gives us a rating of 40 for the F4U-1D, 38 for the 2x.30cal F4U, and 42 for the F4U-1C.  Obviously this is inaccurate.  According to this scheme there is little difference between a 1C, 1D and our theoretical poorly armed F4U.  In reality the 2x.30 Cal armament would cripple an otherwise fine aircraft.  Likewise the armament difference between the 1C and 1D makes a big difference in how often it is chosen in the arena.

For the AH MA I think the following is a good first cut at assigning aircraft Fighter (only) ratings.  If these ratings work correctly then fighters that are attractive arena rides should receive a high rating while fighters that are not should receive a low rating.

We use the following ratings:

1. Speed
2. Climb
3. Dive
4. Durability
5. Turn Rate (counted twice because players really like this)
6. Roll Rate
7. Armament (counted twice because players really like this)
8. Range (doesn’t matter much in MA so rated only as a 0 or 1)
9. Cockpit Visibility (not much difference between aircraft so rated only as a 0 or 1)
10. Carrier Capable  (with the current map carrier capability makes an aircraft attractive so rated as a 0 or 4)

Furthermore the majority of MA combat occurs at low level so we are considering low-level performance only.  People don’t choose fighters for the MA based on their high-level performance.

Here are some aircraft Fighter ratings for the current AH MA (CV world):

F4U-1D
Speed - 4
Climb - 2
Dive - 3
Durability - 4
Turn Rate – 2 (doubled)
Roll Rate - 4
Armament – 2 (doubled)
Range - 1
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 4
Rating:  32 (28 non CV world)

F4U-1C
Same except
Armament – 4 (doubled)
Rating:   36 (32 non CV world)

Spit IX
Speed - 2
Climb - 4
Dive - 2
Durability - 2
Turn Rate – 3(doubled)
Roll Rate - 3
Armament – 3(doubled)
Range - 0
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  25

Seafire
Speed - 0
Climb - 3
Dive - 2
Durability - 2
Turn Rate – 3 (doubled)
Roll Rate - 3
Armament – 3 (doubled)
Range - 0
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 4
Rating:  26 (22 non CV world)

P-51D
Speed - 4
Climb - 3
Dive - 4
Durability - 3
Turn Rate – 2 (doubled)
Roll Rate - 3
Armament – 2 (doubled)
Range - 1
Cockpit Visibility - 1
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  27

FW-190A5
Speed - 3
Climb - 4
Dive - 3
Durability - 3
Turn Rate –  -3(doubled)
Roll Rate - 4
Armament – 3(doubled)
Range - 0
Cockpit Visibility - 1
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  17

P-47D
Speed - 3
Climb - 2
Dive - 4
Durability - 4
Turn Rate – -3(doubled)
Roll Rate - 3
Armament – 3(doubled)
Range - 1
Cockpit Visibility - 1
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  18

N1K2
Speed - 3
Climb - 4
Dive - 3
Durability - 2
Turn Rate – 3(doubled)
Roll Rate - 2
Armament – 4(doubled)
Range - 1
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  29

F6F
Speed - 3
Climb - 2
Dive - 3
Durability - 4
Turn Rate – 3(doubled)
Roll Rate - 2
Armament – 2(doubled)
Range - 1
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 4
Rating:  29 (25 non CV world)

109G10
Speed - 4
Climb - 4
Dive - 3
Durability - 2
Turn Rate – 0(doubled)
Roll Rate - 3
Armament – 2(doubled)
Range - 0
Cockpit Visibility - 0
Carrier Capable - 0
Rating:  20

Hooligan

[Spatula]

P51-D
Speed 5
Climb 2.5
Dive 5
Durability 2.5 - that rad is darned exposed
Range 5
Armament 3 - IMO 6 50s are damned lethal.
Ordinance load 3
High speed handling 5
Low speed handling 3 (low fuel and flaps it *can* turn well)

Total 34


[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 01-15-2001).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Hooligan:
Spit IX
Speed - 2

FW-190A5
Speed - 3

PErfect. Care to tell me why does the spit IX have a 2 and the A5 a 3?...because they are MATCHED on speed (depending on altitude one is a bit faster than the other)
.

And A5 with a climb of 4?

ROFLMAO

[Hooligan]

RAM:

A spit IX goes about 320 on the deck and an a5 goes about 340.  20mph is nothing to laugh at and like I said in my post, the ratings are for low level.

As for you next piece of confusion:  Everything that climbs about 4,000 fpm on the deck got a rating of 4.  3,500 = 3 and 3,000 = 2.  Only 2 aircraft have a significant climb advantage over the a5 (the G10 and LA-5).  Perhaps these should be given a climb rating of 5, or I could shift everything elses' climb rating down one level.  But that would have the effect of pushing most of the US aircraft climb ratings down into the "punishment" ratings and frankly I don't think having a 3,000 fpm climb rate is that big a deal in the MA.  Contrast this to the turn rates of the a5 and P-47.  IMO their poor turn rates have a lot to do with why so few MA players choose them.

Hooligan

[RAM]

First of all, spit is slower low, under 15K, Fw190A5 is slower high, over 20K. You dont point a fast or slow at certain altitudes, if you point the overall quality of a plane, you do it taking in mind its performance at any altitude. So, in my book, Spit IX and Fw190A5 are equals in speed.

oh, and Fw190A5 doesnt reach 4000fpm at sea level, at full weight, It does at some 4K, and after passing over that altitude the climbrate, and acceleration, falls drastically. To point with a 4 a plane that at 9-10K climbs at less than 3000fpm, its a joke.So...are you putting in the same league and puntuation,a 109G10, a Yak9 and a Fw190A5?

ROFL!


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[RAM]

Just to do some comparations:

P51D

1.Speed = 5

2.Climb = 2.5

3. Dive = 5

4. Durability = 2

5. Range = 5

6. Armament = 3.

7. Ordinance load = 4

8. High speed handling = 5

9. Low speed handling = 2.5

10. Multi-purpose = 4

Total: 38

********************************

P47D30

1. Speed = 4

2. Climb = 1

3. Dive = 5

4. Durability = 5

5. Range = 4

6. Armament = 4

7. Ordinance load = 5

8. High speed handling = 4

9. Low speed handling = 1

10. Multi-purpose = 4

Total: 37
**************************
P38L

1. Speed = 3.5

2. Climb = 4

3. Dive = 4

4. Durability = 5.

5. Range = 5

6. Armament = 4

7. Ordinance load = 5

8. High speed handling = 3 (only because compression, if not I'd give it a 5)

9. Low speed handling = 3

10. Multi-purpose = 5

Total: 41.5 (lol citabria you're gona agree with me?     )
*****************************
La5

1. Speed = 4 (tough call. Fast as hell at low altitudes, drops over 15K if it was as fast high as low, this would be a 5)

2. Climb = 3 (a four changed to 3 for the very same reason)

3. Dive = 4

4. Durability = 3

5. Range = 2

6. Armament = 3

7. Ordinance load = 1

8. High speed handling = 4

9. Low speed handling = 4

10. Multi-purpose = 0    

Total: 28
*************************

Yak9

1. Speed = 4

2. Climb = 4

3. Dive = 4

4. Durability = 2.5 (radiator VERY prone to damage)

5. Range = 1 (lack of DT makes this one go with the G10)

6. Armament = 2

7. Ordinance load = 1

8. High speed handling = 4

9. Low speed handling = 4.

10. Multi-purpose = 0

Total: 26.5
********************************
Spitfire IX

1. Speed = 2

2. Climb = 4

3. Dive = 5

4. Durability = 2

5. Range = 3

6. Armament = 4

7. Ordinance load = 3

8. High speed handling = 2

9. Low speed handling = 4.5

10. Multi-purpose = 3

Total: 32.5
*************************

Spit V

1. Speed = 1

2. Climb = 2.5

3. Dive = 4

4. Durability = 2

5. Range = 3

6. Armament = 4

7. Ordinance load = 2

8. High speed handling = 2

9. Low speed handling = 5

10. Multi-purpose = 1.5

Total: 27
***********************************
A6M5:


1. Speed = 1

2. Climb = 3

3. Dive = 2

4. Durability = 1

5. Range = 5

6. Armament = 3

7. Ordinance load = 2

8. High speed handling = 1

9. Low speed handling = 5

10. Multi-purpose = 1

Total: 24
***********************

N1K2:

1. Speed = 3

2. Climb = 3.5

3. Dive = 3

4. Durability = 4

5. Range = 4

6. Armament = 4.5

7. Ordinance load = 3.5

8. High speed handling = 3

9. Low speed handling = 4.5

10. Multi-Purpose= 3.5

Total:36.5
*******************************
F4U

1. Speed = 4

2. Climb = 2.5

3. Dive = 5

4. Durability = 4.5

5. Range = 4.5

6. Armament = 5 (Chog) 3 (Dhog)

7. Ordinance load = 4.5 (Chog) 5(Dhog)

8. High speed handling = 5

9. Low speed handling = 3.5

10. Multi-purpose = 5

Total: 43.5 (Chog) 42 (Dhog)
****************************
C205:

1. Speed = 3

2. Climb = 4

3. Dive = 3

4. Durability = 2.5

5. Range = 3

6. Armament = 3.5

7. Ordinance load = 1

8. High speed handling = 2

9. Low speed handling = 4

10. Multi-purpose = 0

Total: 26

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Pongo]

Lots of good numbers there.
I would say that the usefullness of a stat should be kept in mind. There is nothing wrong with the range of a drop tanked 109. If you take it full you will run out of ammo long befor fuel. So while all the 109s are short legged scoring them down so far for it inflates how important it is in the game.

[Hooligan]

RAM:

You're an idiot.  

Performance over 15K matters hardly at all in the AH MA.

The A5 climbs about 4k per minute up to 5k which is where it matters in the MA.  Check the charts if you don't believe me.  At low altitude it is in the same class as the N1k2, Spit IX and all the other "good climbers" except for the Lag and G10, which should be one class above.

Hooligan

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Hooligan:
RAM:

You're an idiot.  


Hooligan

LOL! LOL! I think that comment says more about who you are Hooligan than what you think RAM knows about this game. Wow aren't we geared up about a GAME!  

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by Hooligan:
RAM:

You're an idiot.  

Performance over 15K matters hardly at all in the AH MA.

Your first statement says everything about you

the second one means you dont know to read. F4UDOA classified the planes in their historical role. I put them in a scale comparing each plane with the others in AH, but I qualified them as they historically performed.

And not only I did that with the spit, I did that with the Yak9 (a 5 down,3 high) the La5 (a 5 low, 2 high) etc.

Next time you disagree with someone I sugest you to read the book called "to respect others' opinion".


The A5 climbs about 4k per minute up to 5k which is where it matters in the MA.  Check the charts if you don't believe me.  At low altitude it is in the same class as the N1k2, Spit IX and all the other "good climbers" except for the Lag and G10, which should be one class above.

Most fights in MA are done between 5K-15K.

I dont need to check any chart. I've flown A5 1000 times more than you. FYI N1K2 is faster than in the charts, Pyro stated it. FYI, the G2 G6 and F4 are "good climbers" too.

FYI, too, I've flown most of the fighter planes in AH, both offline, on H2H , Main arena and Scenarios. So I know all of them pretty well. And to put a 4 to a 190A5 is downright ridiculous.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-15-2001).]