Transformers 2

[rogwar]

We went to see it today and had fun. Quite an action packed movie. Critics ripped it up but hey it's based on a cartoon. Went with my daughter and we had a blast. Nice sequel and looking forward to more.

[Saxman]

I was thinking today that it's ironic critics (STILL have yet to hear from the NAACP or one of the other minority interest groups) are blasting Skids and Mudflap as racist caricatures, yet they COMPLETELY ignored Jetfire: a crotchety and cantankerous old man who speaks with something of a Scottish brogue, and Wheelie's Brooklyn accent and wannabee tough guy behavior, which are both just as stereotypical as the "gangsta" portrayal of the Twins. Oh, and what about Alice! "Her" depiction as a horny college co-ed is insulting to women!

[moot]

I thought the plot was too uneventful.  The action and fighting's fine, but it's riding on a drowsy plot.  Too bad because the art is excellent.  Definitely buying this one when it comes out in bluray or whatever.

[zoozoo]

i thought those two little escort robots were so funny 

[moot]

That mega constructicon made me think of this:

Th’earths face is but thy Table; there are set
Plants, cattell, men, dishes for Death to eate.
In a rude hunger now hee millions drawes
Into his bloody, or plaguy, or sterv’d jawes.

[Saxman]

I thought the plot was too uneventful.  The action and fighting's fine, but it's riding on a drowsy plot.  Too bad because the art is excellent.  Definitely buying this one when it comes out in bluray or whatever.

Fallen WAS a bit slow to get going, but there was a very definitive plot moving it forward which it astonishes me to see the critics bash it for not having one at all (although here is where the length worked against it somewhat. I think if it had been a half hour shorter the plot would have been clearer). Even if they left it the same length the story may have worked better if they brought Jetfire and the history of the Fallen in a little earlier in the film, as that's where the plot REALLY got going. It actually was a VERY Indy-esque treasure hunt/chase film. Just substitute the Nazis for Decepticons and the Lost Ark for the Matrix of Leadership.

One place where I think the critics are being unfair is that Fallen DEFINITELY felt like it's meant to be watched with the first movie, and not as a stand-alone film. If you look at it from that perspective the seeming lack of character development makes better sense, because that development is being spanned across TWO films, not just one.

They COULD have been a little more original with the Decepticon lineup, as they duplicated a lot of the Constructicons throughout the film:

According to Wikipedia, Devastator in the movie was formed by: Mixmaster, Scavenger, Scrapper, Hightower, Overload, Longhaul and  Rampage (yellow). However they ALSO duplicated Mixmaster for a Decepticon killed by Jetfire, Demolisher--who was killed by Optimus in Shanghai--was identical to Scavanger, a second Scrapper was killed by the other Constructicons to resurrect Megatron, another Longhaul is killed by the US military during the final battle, and Rampage (red) is killed by Bumblebee. I guess it saved on production time to just "palette swap" the Constructicons to create more enemies, (they also duplicated Blackout from the first movie as Grindor in the 3v1 against Optimus) but there's so many characters they COULD have drawn from instead.

I did like getting to finally see Megatron and Starscream bickering. That, and Starscream telling Megatron at the end "It's not cowardice to make a strategic retreat" as an excuse to save his own bellybutton REALLY took me back.

And dammit, where the hell is Prowl?! I'm REALLY wanting to see him kick Barricade's bellybutton in a Black-and-White battle to the death!

[Xasthur]

I thought the plot was too uneventful.  The action and fighting's fine, but it's riding on a drowsy plot.  Too bad because the art is excellent.  Definitely buying this one when it comes out in bluray or whatever.

Agreed. No plot, great action.

Less chit-chat and ditch the 'teen troubles' and more killing.

[moot]

Saxman, I just found the incessant emphasis on Prime being KO kinda limp & lame.  Everything revolving around an inert piece of metal.  Like driving a car while looking in the rearview mirrors instead of at the road ahead.  I thought everything else was alright. The childish naive stuff is no biggie. The irreverent humor was great; they need to stick to that and even push it further next time around.

[Saxman]

Saxman, I just found the incessant emphasis on Prime being KO kinda limp & lame.

Actually I thought that drove things very nicely because of Optimus's IMPORTANCE within the Transformers universe. The only being that had the power to take on the Fallen--one of the Primes--was ANOTHER Prime. Who among the Autobots could they have given the Matrix TO? Jetfire was too old to stand a chance. Ironhide is tough and a fighter, but Starscream disabled him in the first movie with relative ease. Bumblebee probably had the heart, but even with the Matrix he would have been no match for the Fallen.

Sure, they sort of drove having to revive Optimus by making the Fallen so powerful, but would he have really been that interesting a villain if Wheelie could have killed him with the Matrix?

Optimus took on Megatron, Starscream and Grindor all at once, killed Grindor, disabled Starscream, and really messed Megatron up before Megatron stabbed him in the back while he was distracted. That's just bad ass. Resurrecting Optimus Prime WAS that big of a deal, because there was no one else who could have beaten the Fallen. All the characters knew that without Optimus they didn't stand a chance. Between that, and the characters' love for him as a friend and as a leader (let's face it, that's a BIG reason why Optimus is such an iconic character: flawed heroes are interesting, but every now and then we as an audience NEED someone who really IS that good. As a culture we DO love Optimus Prime not just because he's big and can really kick ass, but because of the ideals he embodies. He IS the perfect warrior and leader) it's NOT unrealistic that they expended so much effort into finding a way to bring him back.

I had no problem with Sam's determination to revive Optimus driving the second half of the movie.

[moot]

No Saxman, I mean as a movie.  Endless soppiness and fawning over Prime stalling the plot didn't help the movie.  They could have had e.g. the rest of the "inferior" cast hitting brick walls every attempt they made without Prime's help, or at least going around in circles.  Instead they sat on their bellybutton with just 2 scenes.  The short (plot wise; long in actual time) segment where he's out cold, and the longer one where he's laying in the middle of the desert with everyone sitting around him.  Stagnation.

That he took on three bad guys, got nailed distracted, or that Sam's so determined are separate from that.  Him getting KO'd was a good device to drive the plot on, but the writers didn't take advantage of it.  It was just a stalemate that felt artificially drawn out by the lack of actual development leading up to the denouement (sp?)

[Saxman]

Sorry, I must have misread what you were saying as it being the whole "gotta resurrect Prime" thread in general was bad.

However almost immediately after Optimus went down they learned from Jetfire they needed a Prime to fight the Fallen to begin with, so they didn't exactly LEAVE any openings for the rest of the cast to try fighting back without him, if you don't count the holding action in the desert.

[OOZ662]

My girlfriend went to see the premier. Apparently the only thing she enjoyed was when one of her friends bust out laughing during one of the dramatic scenes. Plenty of cool explosions, but plotwise completely dry.

[moot]

Saxman my memory of the film gets blurrier each time I think about this, but as far as I remember, the film slowed to almost zero real plot advancement once prime went down.  Can't do this, can't do that, soul searching that goes in circles, a repeat of the archetypal black suit govt gnat pestering everyone about petty poop disguised as national imperative, more soul searching, and so on.  Instead of a couple of tentative tangents that fall thru before everyone falls back on and succeeds in the main arc.  It was very obvious to me..
Agree to disagree I guess. 

[RightF00T]

I thought it was "alright"...I was confused at multiple poitns trying to decide which robots just died and which ones were on screen.  Didn't have that problem with the first one.

[Saxman]

I thought it was "alright"...I was confused at multiple poitns trying to decide which robots just died and which ones were on screen.  Didn't have that problem with the first one.

Part of that problem may be because as I said, they duplicated several of the Constructicons during the final battle.