Author Topic: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...  (Read 2554 times)

Offline Yarbles

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2009, 08:51:20 AM »
It has to be the Mossie in high flying Bomber mode with say 6x500.

It would be a more user firendly verson of the 234 and should have a lower perk imho.

Of course like the 234 its main enemy would be the 262.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2009, 09:00:44 AM »
Back in WB's 2.77 we had two Mossies, not sure which Model it was but one of em had no guns
and used a bombsite, and was very fast, think it carried x4 500 ponders

I wouldnt mind spendin some perks for that, not sure that it qualifies a bomber though

I forgot about that but in AW the Mossie we had had a level bombsight too.  It could out-run anything in the arena at 20K and IIRC also carried 4x500 lbs.

The first time I flew a Mossie in AH I took it to just under 20K, was wondering why it was so slow, then arrived at target and was disssapointed when I discovered there was no bomb sight.

The speed alone of that high alt Mossie level bomber would be worth a light perk and it would be easy to model off the existing Mossie.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 09:02:31 AM by BaldEagl »
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2009, 09:20:26 AM »
read an interesting anaysis of bomber commands effectiveness somewhere which suggested that replacing almost all of the 4 engined bombers with B mossies would have given a large increase in ords delivered to target, with a large reduction of cost in terms of £££s, raw materials and casualties. Lancs would have been retained for area bombing and specialised missions requiring bombs over 4k.
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Offline Yarbles

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2009, 09:37:27 AM »
read an interesting anaysis of bomber commands effectiveness somewhere which suggested that replacing almost all of the 4 engined bombers with B mossies would have given a large increase in ords delivered to target, with a large reduction of cost in terms of £££s, raw materials and casualties. Lancs would have been retained for area bombing and specialised missions requiring bombs over 4k.

I was raving and ranting on about this a year or 2 ago on here.

I concluded that the reason this didnt happen was beacuae Bomber Harris was always going to win the war in the next 6 months and therefore their would never be time to re tool etc and shift from conventional aluminium aircraft to wooeden wonders.

Statistically it makes perfect sense the mossie carrying say one third the bomb load of the heavies but with around one fifth the attrition rate and with a crew of 2 instead of 8. And able to go to berlin and back twice in the time it took the sterling to make the journey once.

The mossie was the longest serving and undoubtedly the most modern of the uk ww2 bombers. It was only replaced by the canberra which flew the same high speed extreme altitude type of mission.

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Offline CDR1

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2009, 12:45:36 PM »
i get a kick when i read these, cause it always shows the amazing amount of knowledge AHers have about ww2 planes. i would like to see some "Almost made it planes" planes that lost the completion for production and use. in the bomber fleet i suggest the American B31 Dominator, big brother to the b24. it was produced in small numbers and used in ww2 but it lost the completion to the b29.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2009, 01:48:08 PM »
Quote
In the AH world, where a large portion of the population puts emphasis on porking everything in sight as quickly as possible in order to avoid having to fight, think of the impact of a B-17 sized payload in a platform that is 80 - 100 mph faster.


Or..maybe they just enjoy flying cartoon bombers, as you enjoy flying cartoon fighters.
Quote
Another overlooked difference:  AW factored out head-on shots.  Even from an A26 or a Mosquito you were in no danger if you flew directly toward it.  AH, by contrast, rewards the HO shot, and this would make a significant difference in the combat effectiveness of the A26.

Hos aren't that big a factor from Attack planes and medium bombers in this game. Even Mossies are pretty easy to avoid.
Quote
Of course like the 234 its main enemy would be the 262.

All those 234 sorties and I only ran into a 262 once, tho I agree capability-wise. And its not like I was tool shedding all those 234 runs. I'd normally aim towards the largest dar-bar on the map to drop and then run thru. Just for excitement. I only got kilt twice too. Once by a Corsair and once by a KI-84.

Quote
read an interesting anaysis of bomber commands effectiveness somewhere which suggested that replacing almost all of the 4 engined bombers with B mossies would have given a large increase in ords delivered to target, with a large reduction of cost in terms of £££s, raw materials and casualties. Lancs would have been retained for area bombing and specialised missions requiring bombs over 4k.

That was a comment by a Mossie squadron commander was it not? I never saw much supportive evidence to back this up. Clearly the Brits found more then enough work for the Mossies they had already built, and one has to wonder how it would be possible to have fielded an all-Mossie bomber force.

And while there is plenty of fuel for the fire of discussion as to whether the strategic bombing effort had great impact on German war production one thing that has no room for argument is the fact the heavy 4 engined birds did just fine destroying German cities. Could the Mossie, or all-Mossie force, have had the impact the heavies had in city busting? I very much doubt it.

Back to the A-26, both the "B" and "C", by the time it entered the fight in squadron strength the air war had been pretty much won by using lesser air craft. By Nov. '44 in Europe, and Jan. '45 in Asia, we were fast running out of targets for mediums and attack planes. In the Pacific amphib OPs support was better supported by the vast Yank carrier force and heavy surface gunnery of the big boys. The Pitiful ,unprotected, Jap convoy system had been pretty much wrecked already by other planes. There wasn't a whole lot left of the IJN after the summer of '44. So here we were with a great attack plane and nothing much for it to do.

It would be successful in the game, and after the initial rush of perk spending, would be easily controlled by perking it. Tigers, 262s, Tempests...ect aren't ruining the game by over-use so why would anyone think a perk bomber would?
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2009, 04:06:48 PM »
How about a bigger cargo plane> loaded with more troops...?

Not a bomber really, but would make a good use of perks.

The maximum number of troops carried is based purely on the number needed for capture not how many could actually be carried.

C-47 could actually carry more than 10 paratroopers.

Same for field supplies.

Interesting to think what the rick versus reward strategy would be if this was possible though.  Perk it a bit unrealistically high.  Maybe per extra drunk.  Would anyone really fly an unarmed perk transport into harms way?

Won't happen though.


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2009, 04:17:43 PM »
Did Air Warrior really have it THAT flat-out wrong?



In a nutshell, yes.  All bombers in AW were modeled incorrectly, that's why you had B17s that could out turn any fighter and as a Deathstar, a fighting B-17 was by far the deadliest aircraft to go against.


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2009, 04:21:07 PM »
Back in WB's 2.77 we had two Mossies, not sure which Model it was but one of em had no guns
and used a bombsite, and was very fast, think it carried x4 500 ponders

I wouldnt mind spendin some perks for that, not sure that it qualifies a bomber though

AW had an ungunned Mossie as well.  Was great for behind the lines attacks on rear enemy bases.  Nothing could touch you when you got up to speed in that thing, was great.


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Offline Lye-El

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2009, 07:06:11 PM »
and as a Deathstar, a fighting B-17 was by far the deadliest aircraft to go against.


ack-ack

And you never knew if it was full of gunners until you got in range.....


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline Yarbles

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2009, 02:37:44 AM »

And while there is plenty of fuel for the fire of discussion as to whether the strategic bombing effort had great impact on German war production one thing that has no room for argument is the fact the heavy 4 engined birds did just fine destroying German cities. Could the Mossie, or all-Mossie force, have had the impact the heavies had in city busting? I very much doubt it.


Assuming production was transferable definately (well in my opinion) because the force would have grown in size due to the much lower attrition rate. Accuracy would also have improved as Bombardiers were effected by their slim chances or surviving a tour and would drop early before the target and the crew in general have a high propensity to abbort.

I think they average air crew had considerably less than a 50% chance of surviving 30 missions while a mossie Pilot or navigator had around 70%. Therefore the majority of now more experienced flyers would see a second tour.

The heavies had a crew of 8 to train the mossie a crew of 2 who flew in the dark at 30,000 ft and at around 400mph. How easy would they be to shoot down in a Ju88 or a 110!!!!

The mossie carried about half the load of the average heavy and could carry the 4000lb cookie, The may not have had the shear volume in the bomb bay to carry all the incendiaries but maybe these could have been adapted in some way. Again though with the increasing size of the force this would be likely overcome.

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Offline froger

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2009, 12:08:53 AM »

LOL wasn't this the "flying lighter" cause it used to catch on fire all the twiddlen time? HTC would have a ball modelling that! It would be hilarious..... right after take off, flushin your perkies cause all the engines are burning LMFAO  :x



LOL yup......Got a match...... :rock
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Offline froger

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2009, 12:30:03 AM »
B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
   B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
     B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
       B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
         B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
            B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
              B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
                 B29 B29 B29 B229
                   B29 B29 B29
                     B29 B29
                        B29
                         :pray


    There......i said it :aok


froger
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Offline Yarbles

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2009, 05:39:56 AM »
B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
   B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
     B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
       B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
         B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
            B29 B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
              B29 B29 B29 B29 B29
                 B29 B29 B29 B229
                   B29 B29 B29
                     B29 B29
                        B29
                         :pray


    There......i said it :aok


froger

Flying around at 30k+ at 350 mph with 20k of bombs, how do we kill it  :uhoh

Would have to have a major perk value.

And the A Bomb for the HQ.

Wow what a great idea :O :x :rolleyes: :D
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Offline Yarbles

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Re: Perked Bomber - I am at a loss...
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2009, 11:11:55 AM »
Actually having been bomber huting lately I would perk the B17 and maybe even the b26.

If flown by an experienced flyer they can come back relatively undamaged with maybe 5 kills. I think Krusty has put this down to excess speed. Certainly it takes a long time to set up a viable atack on these planes and when they realise you are setting up an atack and take early evasive action I find it near impossibe.

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