P38J at alt

[Guppy35]

I MANAGED  to out turn a 109g in a hellkitty.....but haven't managed to out turn any of the 109's in my 38 as yet......

I've done ok against the later 109s in the 38G.  It's the E, F and G2 that can get inside the turn on the 38G when I get too slow.  The others I can generally get everything hanging out and be haging on the stall and get inside their turns down low.

[CAP1]

Cap1, I clipped together some P-38J vs different MW 109 films for you (the last clip I just threw on b/c it was fun)
vs109s.ahf

Given equal conditions the 109 has the turn radius advantage on the P-38, but the 38 is very close, and in the case of the K, on par for rate of turn.  The advantage is not so great that different loadouts and pilot skills can't even up the fight.

mannnnnn.....i WISH i could maneuver the 38 around like that. i also wish the filmviewer would show control inputs. i could hear your throttle work some, but it was hard sometimes when the other planes were close......i saw you staying verticle in places where i seem to always lose the fights, and at speeds well below what i try to maintain.....and it looked like you were heavy on the rudder to get 'round on him a couple times?

i'm gonna hafta watch it again....many more times actually.

thanks dude!!
 

[Murdr]

and it looked like you were heavy on the rudder to get 'round on him a couple times?

IIRC, mainly when inverted and near stall to assist rolling as the bogie passed under me...I think once to skid when I was off the throttle to keep separation...and probably a few times when shooting.  I do use rudder for roll assit quite often without even thinking about it, but typically not during a hard pitch maneuver which tends to stall 1 wing.

As far as throttle there were only two reasons for not being at full thottle...either I wanted to adjust closure/separation, or I was making a nose down turn that risked a flight path overshoot and did not want to accelerate much beyond corner velocity.

[CAP1]

IIRC, mainly when inverted and near stall to assist rolling as the bogie passed under me...I think once to skid when I was off the throttle to keep separation...and probably a few times when shooting.  I do use rudder for roll assit quite often without even thinking about it, but typically not during a hard pitch maneuver which tends to stall 1 wing.

As far as throttle there were only two reasons for not being at full thottle...either I wanted to adjust closure/separation, or I was making a nose down turn that risked a flight path overshoot and did not want to accelerate much beyond corner velocity.

ok.......your last statement brings another question? when i do nose low turns, even at idle, she accelerates like the dickens. on occasion, i've cross controlled......like if i'm turning right, i'll dump some left rudder and kinda skid down.....then release it, and go back to coordinated flight as i get to where i think i need to be.

does that make sense, or am i overcomplicating things?

[Murdr]

You can do that.  It's very rare that I would do that while pulling a lot of stick.  It's also risky when turning nose down out of the vertical because it's likely to induce a spin. 

Just to reiterrate though.  I'm rarely off the throttle in a turn, and the main exception when a split-s or slice is likely to blow through the bandits flight path.  If there's no risk of a flight path overshoot, I want all the E I can get.

[CAP1]

You can do that.  It's very rare that I would do that while pulling a lot of stick.  It's also risky when turning nose down out of the vertical because it's likely to induce a spin. 

Just to reiterrate though.  I'm rarely off the throttle in a turn, and the main exception when a split-s or slice is likely to blow through the bandits flight path.  If there's no risk of a flight path overshoot, I want all the E I can get.

hhmm......that could be a lot of my problem then too.....i tend to back off the throttle in tighter turns, as it almost feels as if the engines are actually "pulling" me. kinda like a car that "pushes" through the turns.....


as for me cross controlling when i think i'm accelerating too fast on the downhill....i've never done it below about 150 or so......

[Murdr]

.....i tend to back off the throttle in tighter turns, as it almost feels as if the engines are actually "pulling" me. kinda like a car that "pushes" through the turns.....

In most cases you'd be hurting your turn radius and rate rather than helping.  A rule of thumb is if you can pull the stick hard enough to stall without blacking out, you *want* all the speed you have.  If you have flaps out, and pull 4g's that means you are close to the top speed of your flap range (and also near your best turn rate at that flap setting).  (BTW, I don't not look at the G meter, I can tell by the magnitude of the blackout.)  Slowing down will only deteriorate your turn, unless you're slowing to where can deploy another notch of flaps.

[CAP1]

In most cases you'd be hurting your turn radius and rate rather than helping.  A rule of thumb is if you can pull the stick hard enough to stall without blacking out, you *want* all the speed you have.  If you have flaps out, and pull 4g's that means you are close to the top speed of your flap range (and also near your best turn rate at that flap setting).  (BTW, I don't not look at the G meter, I can tell by the magnitude of the blackout.)  Slowing down will only deteriorate your turn, unless you're slowing to where can deploy another notch of flaps.

i'll keep that in mind.
it may sound weird, but reading these is putting some ideas in my head, and i think actually helping me a lot.....hopefully others too.
 i dropped into a furball between rooks and bish the other night....and didn't fare that bad. i ended up with 2 kills, and the reset saving my butt fron chief innn his 109.

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