NCAA Boycots South Carolina

[Saxman]

Question:

When did South Carolina and other Southern States start displaying the Confederate Battle Flag again?  I'm relatively sure no Southern States Incorporated the Confederate Flag in any version into their respective State flags until the advent of the Civil Rights movement in the '60s.  I'm also relatively sure no State that seceded continued to fly the flag of secession after the end of hostilities.

It's not about the Confederate Flag or the Civil War per se but about said symbols being coopted by racists such as the KKK in opposition to minority rights.  Conversely, the arguments always are like the above where it's, "what's wrong with the South during the Civil War.... Southern Pride...." etc.  Has nothing to do with it.  It's about racism or perceived racism.

Anyway, my actual original question was what did any State flag that ever had a Confederate flag or representation there of look like before it was so and when was it changed?


wrongway

The flag of Mississippi still incorporates the Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag. It was adopted in 1894.

Georgia's current flag is partially based on the first national flag of the Confederacy. The flag adopted from 1956-2001 included the ANV battle flag. Ironically, even the Daughters of the Confederacy opposed its adoption due to concerns of how it would be viewed, especially as it was created during the height of the Civil Rights movement.

And wgwy, once again it's NOT the Confederate battle flag.

[oakranger]

I proudly admit that i don't know much on history of state flags other then Alaska is the only state that both sides are diffrent and Ohio is not the rectangle shape.  Thx for pointing that out AWwrgwy and thx saxman for posting that info.

I believe that most people have diffrent view when looking at the flags like S.C. and Georgia.  Some thing of "slavery" or "American Civil War". Other may not think nothing of that kind.  I dont know. 

How do you think the Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians view the American flag when U.S. troops rode in on there camp and massacre over 400 man, women and children in 1864.  The troops even shot Chief Black Kettle who was trying to raised the American flag as a signed that the camp is not a hostile camp.  What dose this have to do with the topice, the flag.  Both in 1864 and present American flags are diffrent by number of stars and strips, but still the same country.

[Vudak]

If we actually taught history (or many other subjects) without being worried about applying "PC" standards, offending people, or upsetting the falsehoods that people have found comfort with, we'd have a lot more enlightened populace. But then again, we are talking about government schools...

+1

Studying the buildup to the Civil War in more detail pretty much changed my view on many things in politics and life.

Unfortunately (well, let's face it, it's our own fault), this isn't really the forum for discussing this kind of thing any more.  I will say, however, that it's weird living in a country where one side says, "WE WANT to live this way," and another side says, "YOU MUST live this way," and the latter gets to be the "good guys."

[Shuffler]

It's not about the Confederate Flag or the Civil War per se but about said symbols being coopted by racists such as the KKK in opposition to minority rights.  Conversely, the arguments always are like the above where it's, "what's wrong with the South during the Civil War.... Southern Pride...." etc.  Has nothing to do with it.  It's about racism or perceived racism.
wrongway

Yup KKK, NAACP, and the likes of ACORN...... we don't need any of these racist groups around anymore.

[Die Hard]

Then the people should take the flag back instead of for all eternity cementing its symbolic value to these racist groups. If a racist group started using the Stars and Stripes as their banner should the country change its flag?

[Masherbrum]

+1

Studying the buildup to the Civil War in more detail pretty much changed my view on many things in politics and life.

Unfortunately (well, let's face it, it's our own fault), this isn't really the forum for discussing this kind of thing any more.  I will say, however, that it's weird living in a country where one side says, "WE WANT to live this way," and another side says, "YOU MUST live this way," and the latter gets to be the "good guys."

How so?   What does the hindering of slavery advancing to other states, have to do with "life" today?  

The House Divided Speech, The Fugitive Slave Act and any others.   The economic pitfalls of the South were of their own doing.   If I'm not mistaken South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia and Texas cited the threat to slaveholders’ rights as the cause of, or a major cause of, secession.  

Let's not forget the 1854 Ostend Manifesto which was an unsuccessful Southern attempt to annex Cuba as a slave state.   This after meeting with Spain about purchasing Cuba, then if not granted the annexation, would Declare War on Spain (over Slavery).  

This is directed at some of the incorrect comments in this thread that "History is written by the victors."   That is horse hockey.  The Civil War always comes back to one issue because it is FACT.   Jefferson Davis' quotes are nothing but a bitter man, who along with others wanted to get more rope than they already had.  

If people cannot post intelligent prose, without resorting to attacks and cussing.   Why shouldn't this be allowed to be discussed?   But the fact remains Slavery was the crux of the American Civil War and rightly so.  

No "heritage" disambiguation is needed, that is the lamest excuse one can use.  

[Die Hard]

The Civil War was fought over the two principles of States rights vs. Federal authority. The pivotal issue was slavery, but the principle was State vs. Federation, or more to the point, Confederacy vs. Union.

[Masherbrum]

The Civil War was fought over the two principles of States rights vs. Federal authority. The pivotal issue was slavery, but the principle was State vs. Federation, or more to the point, Confederacy vs. Union.

Spin it anyway you wish.      

You're wrong though.   Read up on the Ostend Manifesto.   It negates your "basis".   Why?   Because a President of the United States backed it. 

[Die Hard]

It is not spin. It is fact.

The Southern States wanted to leave the Union over the issue of slavery. The Federal Union refused to allow the Southern States to secede. By definition, the difference between a confederation and a federation is that the membership of the member states in a confederation is voluntary, while the membership in a federation is not.

The reason they wanted to secede was slavery, but the war was fought over their rights to secede.

[Vudak]

How so?   What does the hindering of slavery advancing to other states, have to do with "life" today?  

This is thin ice, so it's probably better to do this via PM if you would like.

Suffice to say, after my studies, I've started to look at abortion, gay rights, affirmative action, gun control, [insert hot button issue here] in a different light.

Basically, I couldn't care what Texas does so long as they don't try to impose their will on Connecticut.  To me at least, the Confederate flags (really, the "Don't Tread on Me" flag more so) symbolize that train of thought.  I don't think of racism or slavery when I see them these days, whereas I did before I took a closer look.

[Masherbrum]

It is not spin. It is fact.

The Southern States wanted to leave the Union over the issue of slavery. The Federal Union refused to allow the Southern States to secede. By definition, the difference between a confederation and a federation is that the membership of the member states in a confederation is voluntary, while the membership in a federation is not.

The reason they wanted to secede was slavery, but the war was fought over their rights to secede.

Slavery.   You're welcome.

[Die Hard]

I also said earlier:

The pivotal issue was slavery...

Not that you noticed...

However, the reason for secession is not important; it could just as well have been a number of other strongly felt issues. The reason the war was fought was over States Rights and their legal right to secede from the Union.

[Vudak]

Spin it anyway you wish.      

You're wrong though.   Read up on the Ostend Manifesto.   It negates your "basis".   Why?   Because a President of the United States backed it. 

While doing so, maybe check out the Albany Plan of Union, the Virginia & Kentucky Resolutions, the Hartford Convention, etc., etc., etc. 

I think knocking everything down to slavery is sidestepping some major moments in U.S. History.  The issue of State v. Federal Sovereignty was going on long before the Civil War...

[Skuzzy]

Seems this thread is heading the wrong direction.  Even though it is old politics, it is still politics.

Just a warning right now.

[Reaper90]

I agree, Skuzzy. No sense discussing it, no one will ever "win" that argument.