lets see. A P47 (or 190A8 for that matter), sees a spit 10K under it. fine. It dives, tries to kill, and if he doesnt, he zooms to keep its E up. He zooms, may do a hammerhead or other E-keeping reversal, and sets up for another dive. That way until it dies.
There is NO other way a P47 can kill a spitfire. Or a P51 for that matter. A 109G10 can do that (with care not to compress controls), but also can close the fight and FORCE teh spit to turn real hard while it fires. If he kills it ,fine, if not?. Then accelerate out of its range, do a long sustained climb ,and regain E situation. Then it can do an immelmann, a vertical climb, whatever, that the spit wont be able to follow.
RAM, you are just flat wrong. I kill planes using tactics other than that most of the time in my Jug. I get quite a few Spit kills, and I don't dive in from 10k for 'em most of the time. 10k is WAY too much for me to work with. I like about a 3k alt advantage or less. Now what I'll do is make a vertical attack and use my roll in the vertical to go for a snapshot on the bogey. Assuming the Spit is paying attention, he will execute a break turn. This break turn will be mostly a flat turn, likely with a bit of angle below the horizon. I execute a fairly tight loop, pulling G's, and on the down side of the loop I'll again roll out to try for a shot. I have not zoomed away or extended, but stayed in the fight, and I still have a significant energy advantage which I maintain by rolling in the vertical instead of pulling G's to flat turn like the bogey. After one or two of these, my advantage will be decreasing if I haven't hit him yet, so I will start getting into using yoyo's and lag pursuit with as much vertical component as I can to stay with the bogey. When I have him slow enough, I simply burn my extra E for a tracking shot. With an energy advantage and decent speed, the Jug can TURN, and turn better than the slower fighter for up to 180 degrees or so. I burn that E advantage for a short burst of turning ability and a good solid tracking shot. Now if I miss, I am exiting the fight since an E fighter with no E advantage is defensive. However, up until this point I have been using the strengths of my plane to maintain my E advantage in a close knife fight. I have not zoomed or extended out of guns range, but rather used my superior energy to keep the bogey from pointing his guns at me. Typically I never get more than about 1.2K away from the bogey, but usually I'm much closer through most of the fight. This is not BnZ. This is how I get most of my kills in the P-47, since I'm not a good enough shot to be a really deadly BnZ killer.
The same applies to the A8 as well as many other planes that are suited to E fighting in various ways. The main attributes that make a plane effective in this situation is a good roll rate (for using the vertical to "out turn" a horizontal turning bogey) and an ability to maintain E. Although certainly not the best fighter in this regards in Aces High, the P47 is above average in these areas, and hence can be termed a "good E fighter" IMNSHO.
If you think guys like Westy, Frenchy, and Ammo only get kills in the P47 by pure BnZ, you are just plain wrong. If you should happen to find yourself 3k under them sometime, I'm sure they will demonstrate.
Ram, in the future please don't throw your verbal feces around on the BBS as fact. It will save me time correcting you for the benefit of any newer folks to this BBS who have not yet learned how full of crap you are.
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Lephturn
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 01-24-2001).]
