P38 Modelling is a joke!

[Fury]

Perk the 38, it's the only possible solution.

Fury

<won't even touch the conspiracy theory  >

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 03-04-2001).]

[Seeker]

Widewing, are you familiar with these two?
 http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/perf/perf.html

and
 http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/perf/speed.html

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[Widewing]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Hrhmh.. P-38L were very capable fighter..
surely faster than wuergers.
Though, bigger target  

One thing that I don't believe, is its gliding ability.
I literally have troubles slowing it down to landing speed.
...though, it seems that every plane glides bit too well except tiffie.

E management isnt what it used to be..  before planes lost E when you just pitched up a bit, now they hardly lose it when you yankenbankenwanken the stick.

I absolutely agree. All of the AH planes retain their energy more than they should. Try this to slow the P-38: beginning at 1,000 ft, add one notch of flaps, as you pull off the throttles, ease back on yoke. At about 1,500 ft AGL, execute an 8 point roll, dumping the gear when fully inverted. At each of the remaining points, add more flap. Once you are upright, you should be be down around 140 IAS. I know that it sound crazy, but it kills speed real quick.

My regards,

Widewing

[fscott]

Apparently this guy doesn't know that the P38 was a faster diver than the P51D and even the P47D.  Extending dive flaps will allow it to reach close to 500 mph with control.  It's zoom climb is enhanced by it's two counter-rotating engines which allow it to climb further without torque effects.  I gotta laugh when I read a post like that. I just may start flying the P38 again just to piss some new guys off.

fscott

[funked]

 

All of the AH planes retain their energy more than they should.

That is a bold statement.  If you can back it up, I'll eat my hat.

[funked]

 

Fact is the Allies have won WW2 by numbers, not by quality!

In your wet dreams maybe.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by fscott:
Apparently this guy doesn't know that the P38 was a faster diver than the P51D and even the P47D.  Extending dive flaps will allow it to reach close to 500 mph with control.  It's zoom climb is enhanced by it's two counter-rotating engines which allow it to climb further without torque effects.  I gotta laugh when I read a post like that. I just may start flying the P38 again just to piss some new guys off.

fscott

At least J model still had serious problems with diving.
I haven't heard of L model having any miracle changes either, than better controls in high speed flight (hydraulical control surfaces).
I also believe that P-47 did outaccerlate P-38 in dive.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by funked:
In your wet dreams maybe.

Well, Allies really had some numbers which lead them to at least some level of victory - long range heavy bombers.

and quality came later in the war.

[wells]

Yeah, it glides too well alright!  Rate of descent with flaps and gear down at 150 mph is 5k/min!  You guys are insane!

It took me 10 seconds to slow from 300 to 150 mph in level flight, with gear and flaps up...mind you I turned a bit to help it, but still...15 mph/s???  That's like applying heavy brake pressure in your car.  Too bad we can't *feel* that in a simulation.

[Tac]

"Apparently this guy doesn't know that the P38 was a faster diver than the P51D and even the P47D"

Really? I dont see that. Nothing could outdive a Jug.

"Fact is the Allies have won WW2 by numbers, not by quality!"

I think its both. Numbers during early years and quality (and numbers lol)during late war time (when germany had lost most of its quality but still had some good numbers).

[Glasses]

Both points are very true and I mention it numbers won the war for the allies combined  with quality later of strat and equipment.

As to the E retention model of the airplanes
,since I have no previous knowledge of physics, but I do know that the performance of aircraft and aerodynamics did not keep the aircraft in the air alone some. Some of the heavier airplanes glide for miles. Heck I can glide a Ju88 pretty well same for the 17. Which as soon as you lost the engines these planes, the heavier ones, were comparable to bricks covered with aluminum.


Flap drag model is laughable to say the least . They're like going in a freeway and getting your arm out of the window you can feel the air resistance but it doesn't cause the car to stop accelerating or decrease it considerably. I speak of experience in RL aircraft. Not Cessnas but , High performance lo wing aircraft.

Something I've noticed is that even in earlier 109s which are considered more aerobatic the rudder effectivity at High AoA and slow speed is well sluggish.

Gotta goooooo
AcHoo!

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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
-----15 Spanische Staffel----
Tis not important how one goes,but who goes with you.

[fscott]

Tac, Fishu, The P38 could dive faster than the P47D and the P51D. I can back that up with reference to "America's Hundred Thousand", again the Bible on American fighters, which lists the fastest divers in order with the P38 at the top.  Saying nothing could outdive a Jug, is a general statement.  The P38 could accel faster in a dive, but of course the Jug and 51 could handle higher speeds in the dive.

fscott

[Widewing]

 

Originally posted by fscott:
Tac, Fishu, The P38 could dive faster than the P47D and the P51D. I can back that up with reference to "America's Hundred Thousand", again the Bible on American fighters, which lists the fastest divers in order with the P38 at the top.  Saying nothing could outdive a Jug, is a general statement.  The P38 could accel faster in a dive, but of course the Jug and 51 could handle higher speeds in the dive.

fscott

For the record, the P-38 did have the best dive acceleration of the three. However, that meant that it would venture into compressibility rather quickly. Indeed, the P-38 may hold the initial edge, but it would fall behind in a prolonged dive.

The Critical Mach for the P-38 was 0.68
The P-51 came in next at 0.75, with the P-47
very close to the Mustang. P-38s could be pressed to Mach 0.72, and the Mustang could manage 0.80, but this was pushing it.
The P-47 was able to reach Mach 0.83 under controlled circumstances.

For the P-38 to match the others, it would require a new airfoil design. This should not be a surprise when you consider that the P-38s wing differed little from the Lockheed Electra.

My regards,

Widewing

[Fishu]

I'd like to see FScott face when he tries to break the diving records with P-38J  

[Tac]

cc, the jug could dive longer  

Lockheed Electra? Whats that?

I think HT said they knew the flaps were kaputt (or something), wish I knew if they were adressing them in next version.