Author Topic: c.202 gun camera (movie inside 4MB) (Read 1068 times)

Torque · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2000, 02:46:00 AM »

hey Torquila hope you come back soon bro......thru the frontdoor see you soon

gatt · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2000, 05:21:00 AM »

I think its a P40. The Hurry had almost no dihedral (sp?) (angle) on his wings.

Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.

Regards,
GATT

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]

Vermillion · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2000, 06:36:00 AM »

Quote

Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannons cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.

I think you are right on target Gatt. We don't call this game "CannonBirds" for no reason.

Seriously, the lethality was tuned around the x4 cannon aircraft, and the people who whined about it. So that leaves the people that like to fly aircraft with primarily MG's out in the cold (even though it is better than it use to be).

So you Italian pilots don't feel alone. I fly P-51's and Yak's, so I can feel your pain.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

gatt · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2000, 08:15:00 AM »

Hi Vermillion,
few days ago Ariete managed to talk with an italian WWII Macchi armourer. He confirmed that S.I.T. ammo did contain explosive cartridges.
Moreover we are trying to contact Nicola Malizia, co-author with B.Cull and some others of very interesting books (the Malta series and the last "Spitfires over Sicily").
He was in the Regia Areonautica during WWII and he probably knows how Macchis's 12,7mm belts were built up.
I'll let you know .... yeahhh I'll let you all know

Westy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2000, 08:29:00 AM »

Very nice, clear film. Any more??? !!!

From watching many different guncams I find that Torquilas statement... "it took 3 seconds of firing (with 12.7s and 7.7s) to down a spit from 100yrds and I only blew its Horisontal stab off." to be pretty much what it should take in real life to down and aircraft. Rarely in all the guncams I've watched did the aircraft come apart from a short burts and more times than not those that did had a belly tank or were Japanese aircraft.
Sure. Some 109's, 190's, 51's , 47's or Spits did too but that was not typical - from what I've seen again.

-Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 07-25-2000).]

mason22 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2000, 09:04:00 AM »

link not working for me???

would REALLY like to see it!

-mas

gatt · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2000, 09:25:00 AM »

Mason,
double click on the link above and you'll get a web page with the following:

Quote

This file is hosted by Angelfire.
Please click on
/nt/mio/c202breda.zip
to download this file.

Older Browsers: Hold the SHIFT key and click the above link

gatt · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2000, 09:28:00 AM »

VISCONTI,
you owe me a BIG beer for all this assistance!

Vermillion · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2000, 09:40:00 AM »

Gatt, I believe and support your assertion that the Italians had some 12.7mm rounds with explosive charges. The Japanese did too.

Realistically, the difference in damage would not be too much, in the game IMO.

FYI alot of the .50's that the US and the British used were incendiary rounds, that would have served much the same purpose, in the actual war. To ignite enemy aircraft combustibles. Fuel, oil, oxygen, etc.

I once got too visit a military munitions plant, and the plant engineer showed me alot of different types of ammunition, and we discussed what they did and why.

Basically a 20mm cannon round is much larger that a 12.7mm (.50 cal) MG round, and therefore can carry a significant payload of explosives, plus a fusing device.

A 12.7mm round can only carry a miniscule amount of explosive, and to be honest I can't remember how they even fused them, but I do remember that I was shown a cutaway version of one of these shell types.

So what effective would a 12.7mm explosive shell have in the game? Well, I'm not exactly sure to be honest. But dont' expect them to suddenly have the effect of a 20mm cannon.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-25-2000).]

Nath-BDP · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2000, 10:06:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by gatt:
I think its a P40. The Hurry had almost no dihedral (sp?) (angle) on his wings.

Anyway, IMHO ALL 12,7mm, 13mm and 0.5 inches heavy MG are undermodeled in AH (and WB). Probably, if you model correctly all the guns, 20mm cannon armed a/c would make the game unplayable.

Regards,
GATT

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]

.50 cal is undermodeled? just yesterday I attacked a B17 in my 190 from high 12, the only guns he could bear on me was 2 dorsal .50 cals and i got him but it also took my wing off... later on he said 'i only hit you a few times'.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-25-2000).]

gatt · « **Reply #25 on:** July 25, 2000, 10:07:00 AM »

CC Verm,

I agree with you. But knowing that our 12,7mm belts contain explosive shells would add more realism to the sim (and, who knows, even some graphic effects and/or a different lethality

). Same thing for the japanese cartridge (but I dunno anything about it)

gatt · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2000, 10:17:00 AM »

Nath,
read well this board. You'll discover that OTTO's 12,7mm are really overmodeled. I think they have more range, lethality and a bigger hit-bubble.
OTTO is able to hit from 1,200yds and cut one or both your wings.
If I understand well, HTC did it to give higher chances to buffs to get back home.
But lets not go off-topic

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-25-2000).]

VISCONTI · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2000, 11:31:00 AM »

Hehehe Gatt maybe one day who know

Ok i'm working on other gun camera film, i will post here when i have finished the capture whit my sloow PC

.

I try to contact an armourer that used the Breda 12.7 and if i found more data i will post here.

To be continued stay tuned

moose · « **Reply #28 on:** July 25, 2000, 01:11:00 PM »

Hey Visconti

I flew the Libya scenaria too in 202..and i scored 3 kills.

Today we had a confrontation ( your 202 vs my spit 9 ) and you pinged my spit a few times but no damage on my side.

Could connection be a problem ?

I have cable.

VISCONTI · « **Reply #29 on:** July 25, 2000, 05:55:00 PM »

I killed some spits in libya too, the 12.7 can kill in AH but....

I have tested c202 today in arena.
First engagement was against your spit:
I get some hit on your plane from 450-500y and IMHO is too far for the 12.7 to doo serious damage, was surprised to see no damage at all (i see flash on the cockpit too).

Next soties i meet again spits and killed one whit a 3sec direct hit from 200-250y.
Against P38 i have fired on his whing for more than 5sec. and finally killed (from 150-200y).
Others kills where manouver kill.

Connection is "always" ok for me in c205 i can kill fiters whit <30 20mm in a 1sec. shot.

PS: i was in the only 12.7mm configuration during test whit conv. at 375 (the same i use in c205).

[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 07-25-2000).]