Hurrican Mk.II weights question...

[Krusty]

Anybody have any weights listed for the Hurricane Mk.IIA as compared to the B and C?

I'm curious if (hypothetically) HTC adds the 12-gun option IIB in the hangar whether the "fun factor" would be overshadowed by the "weighs a ton" factor.

It was noticably heavier than the A, if I recall (50% increas in firepower! 4x guns plus ammo! That's got to be a few hundred extra pounds right there!), but I wonder if the hizzos on the IIC and the ammo for them are lighter or heavier.

[RTHolmes]

Browning .303 about 12kg, HS404 about 40kg so 12x .303 would still be lighter than 4x HS404.

20mm round about 10x the weight of a .303 round, not sure how many .303 the 12 gun package carried but my guess it would still be lighter than the 20mm loadout.

either way 12x .303s would be a fun loadout in a knife fight

[Krusty]

12kg, you say?

Well, just going by in-game weights, rounds listed, etc, the ammo loads for the hurr2c are 218lbs for 364 total rounds of 20mm, and for the hurr1a 173lbs for 2664 total rounds of 7mm.

So, a gun-less hurr2 should weigh
7366lbs minus 320 (4x 80lbs hizzos) minus 218lbs (ammo)

Wow... 6828. Never realized how much weight those guns were... Over 500lbs for the guns/ammo alone!

Then, just to compare to Hurr2A,

6828 plus 211 (8-gun package) plus 178lbs (ammo)

7217.

Assuming they do 333 rounds (same as the other guns, 0.065 lbs per round) that's 86.58 lbs for the additional ammo alone, plus 4x more guns

7217 plus 105.6 (guns) plus 86.58

7409 lbs... wow. 43lbs more! Not much at all!


P.S. What really surprised me checking some of my "aircraft weights according to E6B notes" I made a while back, I was shocked to note the Hurr1A is almost 1000lbs lighter than a hurr2c!

[Jing0]

Well the mkIIs got about 5" bigger before the cockpit on account of a bigger merlin (the XX I think at first) . Which improved the stability but made it more sluggish (which id say is about right in ah2) Plus a bit more armour and heavier guns etc IIRC. which would account for the extra.


Id love the IIB tho with its 12guns  any chance of it happenin?

Actually I was doin a bit of reading the other day about the mkIV... I may have been reading it wrong but did that thing really pack an even bigger merlin and FOUR 40mm cannons!!???!! 

(apparently a new universal wing which could carr bombs and rockets externally and according to the pics 4 40mm and 2 303s internally....though I could be wrong)

Words cant describe my feelings about such a gun package...

[Angus]

One thing often forgotten is the Radio, which I belive got bigger, and very much better with the Spit II and Hurry II.
That would be an interesting thing into AH. Hehe, crappy for the Zeke (pilots often removed them because they were bad and heavy) and probably crappy for the I-16

[Jing0]

Good point,  some later hurris had two radios in fact so they could contact the ground forces they were supposed to be supporting.

[RTHolmes]

Actually I was doin a bit of reading the other day about the mkIV... I may have been reading it wrong but did that thing really pack an even bigger merlin and FOUR 40mm cannons!!???!! 

(apparently a new universal wing which could carr bombs and rockets externally and according to the pics 4 40mm and 2 303s internally....though I could be wrong)

Words cant describe my feelings about such a gun package...

pretty sure its 2x40mm, basically the same as our Mk IID but with a later Merlin and the option to swap the cannon for bombs or rockets.

[ImADot]

P.S. What really surprised me checking some of my "aircraft weights according to E6B notes" I made a while back, I was shocked to note the Hurr1A is almost 1000lbs lighter than a hurr2c!

After flying mostly the Mk1 for the last few months, when I climb into the IIc it really does feel heavier - good job factoring that into the flight model.

[Grendel]

Remember that the extra guns are positioned in the outer wings. The convergence of those guns is pretty horrible and they add a lot of heaviness to the controls. The 12 gun HC was rather clumsy and would be a dog in close dogfights.

[druski85]

Remember that the extra guns are positioned in the outer wings. The convergence of those guns is pretty horrible and they add a lot of heaviness to the controls. The 12 gun HC was rather clumsy and would be a dog in close dogfights.

But but but...so many hit sprites!   

8 .303s is plenty, I just give me some fuel injection and I'll stick with that weapon platform   Friggin carburetor.

[Krusty]

Sure it would affect roll-rate! Still, it would be fun as hell! 


EDIT: The hurricane's roll rate is too fast anyways, so you'd just probably find out what it was like historically, if you had the extra guns outboard to slow your roll down.

[cegull]

The hurri site lists IIA at 8,050 lbs full load and IIC at 8,250 full load.  Not a lot of difference.  However almost nobody agrees on how much more horse power the merlin XX had.  Someplace between 180-430 hp over the IA's merlin III.  At least hurri II's have a little more top speed so the extra weight did not turn it into a complete slug.   Hurri II's also had a number of modifications to strengthen fuselage etc..  The hurricane probably saw its best dogfighting during the Battle of Britain but because of factors like its thick wing (mucho drag) it could not hope to evolve as a dogfighter with the newer axis AC.  New models went up to the MK XII where weight was reduced some but maximum speed was still around 328 mph at 18,000 ft.

Nothing like diving on the unwary in a IIC.

[B3YT]

Sure it would affect roll-rate! Still, it would be fun as hell! 


EDIT: The hurricane's roll rate is too fast anyways, so you'd just probably find out what it was like historically, if you had the extra guns outboard to slow your roll down.

sorry but many ex hurri pilots noted that it would roll faster than the spit  and was less "mushy" on the controls. It also reacted to pilot input faster than the spit especially at higher speed dives.  Many spit pilots preferred the clipped wing spit as it ment the roll rate was made simmular to that of the hurricane . 

[Krusty]

I'm pretty sure that's wrong b3yt. The spit16 (clipped wings, like you mentioned) rolls as well as a 190, and there's no way a hurricane could roll as well as a 190. Folks have quoted actual flight test roll times on hurricanes before and the AH hurricanes roll noticably faster (something like 50% faster? Or was it 30%?).

[B3YT]

maybe they found it started it's roll  quicker than the spit . There again we haven't flow the craft and those guys did .  Maybe you should tell those pilots that their flying instincts are wrong and that the figures don't add up? 
Sorry I didn't word myself to well , I didn't mean to imply that the Hurri could roll as fast as a spit 16  or a 190 but was as fast or slightly faster that a full span spit.  From what I've read from pilots who flew the hurri and spit , and from what my grandfather told me from working with squadrons attached to both aeroplanes tells me that the hurri could roll just as fast as a normal wing spit and pilot input was reacted to faster than the spit this would mean that it could start and finish the roll faster than a spit. The clipped wing spits (MkV onwards) would react quicker to pilot input and therefore out roll the hurricane 

The spit would roll fast but the controls were always mushy at first meaning that the plane took longer to start it's roll and change direction. this was due to the shape of the wing , hence it's bad handling at high speed dives (which the hurri does very well in when comparing roll characteristics) .