Ok, If I Can't Convince You....

[Vermillion]

Ok, If I Can't Convince Pyro to put some teeth in the Yak-9U. How about if we get one of these??

 

A P-63 KingCobra

I would have loved to have seen this one at Duxford.

Ah crap, its got a BFG gun too. So I guess its out.

I guess I will just have to join the Luftwaffe boys in their "Bring the Dora to AH" campaign  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[RAM]

Rejected.

Its UGLY  

[Karnak]

Postponed.

Its American.  

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 07-25-2000).]

[Yeager]

I loved my 39 in WBs!

A 63 would be superlative!

Yeager

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[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 07-25-2000).]

[funked]

Karnak, it's not that American.  Only one country flew those in combat.  Hint, red stars.  

[Tac]

Yes, the P-39 would be a good addition to AH. There could be 2 models of it, the American version, and the Russian version (which had most of its armor stripped, giving it a much better performance).

Dangit we need the Me-110  

[Karnak]

Funked, if its got "Made in the USA" stamped on it, its American.  And the attempt to get it in another nations colors is just an underhanded way to try to slip yet more American iron into the game.

Lets get some other nations native designs in before we go adding yet more US iron.  Nothing against American machines (I am an American after all) but I would like to see more diversity in the planeset.

Sisu
-Karnak

[SnakeEyes]

That's silly Karnak... that'd be like telling the goofy Finns that they can't have the F2A because it was made by the US, when the correct reason to deny them the F2A is because it's crap.  

But really, it's who uses the a/c that is important, not who built the danged thing.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Karnak]

SnakeEyes,
I would/will agree with you if/when we had/have a more complete plane set.  In the case of nations like Finland (GO FINLAND!!! ), Brazil and China which really had no domestic aircraft industry there is no choice but to give them aircraft made by other nations but in their colors.  When it comes to nations like Russia and the United Kingdom though, I think that their own industy's and engineer's efforts should be modeled first.  These countries had very robust aircraft industries and I think it would be out of place to give them American equipment instead of their native machines.  I might go so far as to think that it would be a bit of a slap in the face to their memories (this might be a bit heavy and sappy, but its the way I feel) to indirectly mislead more people into over estimating America's already great contribution to the WWII effort.  In another thread it was suggested that HTC give the Brits the A-26.  This was done by players who mostly fly American.  I have no choice but to sense an alterior motive in that suggestion.  What would the Brits gain from having an A-26 instead of their native Mosquito?  In this thread there is the suggestion that the Russians should be given the P-63, an admittedly interesting aircraft, yet once again it appears to be an American aircraft fans who suggested it.  Whould it not be more appropriate to model the Il-2, Il-10 or Tu-2 first?

Many aircraft in AH already are US built.  There are many interesting aircraft from other nations that I would like to see modeled before lend-lease units are modeled.  The reason I don't wish to travel down that path is that I fear, should these units be modeled, that the American prefering players will then expect/request/demand more US aircraft because the VVS and RAF have been expanded.  We could quickly find ourselves in a situation in which 75+% of the Allied aircraft were made in the USA.

(I just checked and with the addition of the Lancaster, 64.7% of Allied units will be US built, currently it stamds at 68.75%)

I hope that clarifies my position on this.  I'm all for these aircraft once the plane set has been flushed out with their native machines.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Dinger]

While undoubtedly flying something built by your country is a point of pride, it's much more significant what insignia are painted on the side.  I know, it sounds absurd, but while a virtual VVS pilot might prefer to be in a Yak-3, even a P-39 with the proper paint job will feel really good.  AFter all, we're not simulating the constructors, but the pilots.  This ain't some silly "made in AMurrica" (or anti-MiA) nationalism.
Besides, we've got reams and reams o' test data just lying around the US.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Cannot agree Karnak- What REALLY matters is not who built it- it's who fought in it. For the P-63 the fact that they were US built is irrelevant. The Russian models were much lighter, flew differently enough to be another plane. And more importantly VVS pilots were the ones who flew, fought, died and fell in love with it. American's never did much of anything with it. Your american bomber point is very much to the point, but this plane is exactly opposite your point, same as the Brewster would be in Finnish colours. Just because it was american made was totally irrelevant to these two planes.

[Nashwan]

Ok, the Yanks can have a lend-lease Beaufighter instead of the P-61  

[Vermillion]

 

yet once again it appears to be an American aircraft fans who suggested it

What???? Are you on some kind of psychotrophic, reality bending, mind altering medication?

Go back to the first days of this board, when Pyro was asking for aircraft suggestions, and see who campaigned for the N1K2 George.

Go back and see who repeatedly posted and asked for the Yak3/Yak9.

Look back in the very recent posts and see who keeps posting about the Ki-63 Peggy or the N1Y1 Frances as the next bomber.

And then look back to see who started the mantra "More Japanese and Russian Aircraft First!" that you yourself have picked up and used.

Now compare that to the number of posts where I have asked for American Aircraft (and I don't consider the P-63 "American" in this context). You might find a few on the P-47M/N, but thats about it.

So I am a American Aircraft Fan, with an American biased agenda? Wow what an insult to both myself, and the reality of the situation.  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Karnak]

Vermillion,
Sorry about that.  That was poorly stated.

I know that you've been for a diverse plane set.  Suggesting Russian and Japanese aircraft time and again.

I was refering to those that followed into the thread.  I should have been clearer.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Pyro]

I would like to do a P-63.  The fact that it has a BFG is not an issue.  The P-63s (aside from one experimental model) used M4s and M10s which are not high-velocity weapons.  If they were sporting M-9s, I'd have the same reservations.  The M-4 is not on the same tier as the Flak 18 or NS-37.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations