Wirbelwind gun modeling

[Dream Child]

So I'm down at THE US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, and what did I find there, but a non-mobile 4x20mm Germain antiaircraft gun platform. We see it in Aces High as the mobile version, known as the Wirbelwind. One thing I noticed, it has DETACHABLE clips, so it has to have someone remove the clips when they are empty and replace with full clips. Unlike the US shipboard quad 40mm's that could be continuously reloaded, the Wirbelwind cannot fire the specific gun during the reload process, or if the clip is empty. There were 2 re-loaders, one on each side of the gunner, each responsible for 2 guns. What I couldn't tell is how many rounds per clip, though they looked shorter than a 30 round AR-15 clip, and being 20mm shells, it looked like it might hold 20 rounds each if they were staggered, though it could have been less, especially if it weren't a staggered loaded clip, and I wasn't trying to confirm that at the time. Too bad I didn't take any pictures.

So, as this is the whishlist area, what I wish for is some realistic reload delay between clips in the Wirbelwind, to make it have a more realistic firing rate.

[Motherland]

So I'm down at THE US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, and what did I find there, but a non-mobile 4x20mm Germain antiaircraft gun platform. We see it in Aces High as the mobile version, known as the Wirbelwind. One thing I noticed, it has DETACHABLE clips, so it has to have someone remove the clips when they are empty and replace with full clips. Unlike the US shipboard quad 40mm's that could be continuously reloaded, the Wirbelwind cannot fire the specific gun during the reload process, or if the clip is empty. There were 2 re-loaders, one on each side of the gunner, each responsible for 2 guns. What I couldn't tell is how many rounds per clip, though they looked shorter than a 30 round AR-15 clip, and being 20mm shells, it looked like it might hold 20 rounds each if they were staggered, though it could have been less, especially if it weren't a staggered loaded clip, and I wasn't trying to confirm that at the time. Too bad I didn't take any pictures.

So, as this is the whishlist area, what I wish for is some realistic reload delay between clips in the Wirbelwind, to make it have a more realistic firing rate.

This has been discussed before.
The Wirbelwind could fire it's guns in a sustained burst, but only by alternating the two banks, one firing at a time while the other bank of guns was reloaded.
We have many guns in the game that are fed by a magazine or a drum, but as far as I understand there exists no reloading mechanism at this point in time, so I don't know when (if) this will be fixed.

[Dream Child]

This has been discussed before.
The Wirbelwind could fire it's guns in a sustained burst, but only by alternating the two banks, one firing at a time while the other bank of guns was reloaded.
We have many guns in the game that are fed by a magazine or a drum, but as far as I understand there exists no reloading mechanism at this point in time, so I don't know when (if) this will be fixed.

This is really too bad, as there were major differences in the way the ground vehicle guns were loaded:

M-16 had 4 reels, 200 rounds each, so could fire 800 rounds without reloading. Don't know how long it took to change a reel, but I bet you didn't like it if aircraft were coming in during a reel change.

Shipboard quad 40mm (US ships) had a top feed that allowed continuous firing. (I'm sure there's a term for that type of reloading system, but don't know what it is.)

The Wirbelwind had detachable magazines, and they really weren't that big, so the effective firing rate would have been much lower than what we see in the game.

The .50 cal browning found on jeeps and such was belt fed out of a box, though I don't remember how many in a box. I think the .30 cal machine guns were similar.

[Motherland]

This is really too bad, as there were major differences in the way the ground vehicle guns were loaded:

M-16 had 4 reels, 200 rounds each, so could fire 800 rounds without reloading. Don't know how long it took to change a reel, but I bet you didn't like it if aircraft were coming in during a reel change.

Shipboard quad 40mm (US ships) had a top feed that allowed continuous firing. (I'm sure there's a term for that type of reloading system, but don't know what it is.)

The Wirbelwind had detachable magazines, and they really weren't that big, so the effective firing rate would have been much lower than what we see in the game.

The .50 cal browning found on jeeps and such was belt fed out of a box, though I don't remember how many in a box. I think the .30 cal machine guns were similar.

We have aircraft guns like that in game, too.
The MG15s in the Ju 88 were fed by drums holding, IIRC 80 rounds each.
I've been told that the MG/FF's in the Bf 110 were drum fed as well, and had to be reloaded every 60 rounds, I don't remember if this was a job for the pilot or the gunner, though.

[Dream Child]

We have aircraft guns like that in game, too.
The MG15s in the Ju 88 were fed by drums holding, IIRC 80 rounds each.
I've been told that the MG/FF's in the Bf 110 were drum fed as well, and had to be reloaded every 60 rounds, I don't remember if this was a job for the pilot or the gunner, though.

I would really like to see some sort of slower rate of fire as appropriate. In the Wirbelwind's case, assuming a 20 round clip, you would have to start reloading after only 40 rounds are spent to sustain 1/2 total fire rate, unless you want to run out of ammo and have 0 rate of fire during the reload process. I'm having a tough time believing you could even sustain 2 cannon, based on the firing rate shown in the game. Two loaders would each have to be able to change 2 clips in about 2 or 3 seconds to sustain 2 cannons firing. While I don't want to get too realistic, like having the gunner select the set of cannon he's firing, perhaps doing something like allowing 1 second of full fire rate followed by 1/2 fire rate until the trigger was released for 3 full seconds would be fair. While I don't want to model too much realism into the game, if a weapon clearly can't sustain the rate of fire in real life, it shouldn't here, either. The belt fed aircraft guns don't get to be faster than in real life, and neither should the other guns.

[Spikes]

It's been asked for before, hopefully HTC will have something planned, and soon. Also like said the gun traverse is too fast.

[Saxman]

It's been asked for before, hopefully HTC will have something planned, and soon. Also like said the gun traverse is too fast.

At the very least fix the gun traverse. IIRC there's also almost NO recoil in the WW (even though it's modeled in the Ostwind and M16) so aim is unrealistically accurate during sustained fire.

[alskahawk]

 This is such a minor consideration when compared to the other updates needed with the GVs. Jeeps that do 70mph over open ground? Richochets, damage model, vehicle modeling in general..all been discussed and ignored.

[Spikes]

This is such a minor consideration when compared to the other updates needed with the GVs. Jeeps that do 70mph over open ground? Richochets, damage model, vehicle modeling in general..all been discussed and ignored.

Wirble wind is now the most used base defence weapon (or so it seems) and it should be modeled right.

[moot]

Armor modeling is IIRC the most complex thing in AH.  The jeeps don't do over 70mph but just a couple miles over 60 (looks like it's 60mph gearing with the extra 2mph from bouncing off the rev limiter), and all GVs benefit from the same generously flat open ground so it's not just the jeep.   The GV discussions probably haven't been ignored so much as left where they belong near the bottom of a really busy to-do list in a flight sim.
IMO that doesn't mean HTC don't welcome well thought out suggestions of where the GV modeling should go when it does happen.  e.g. How to make the ground warfare more interesting.. How to work out open ground so that it's properly bumpy everywhere but on roads and fields... what new units would be most useful, and how to implement new functions (e.g. towed pieces).. etc.

[frank3]

...as left where they belong near the bottom of a really busy to-do list in a flight sim.

Moot Moot Moot, never thought I'd correct you on this...

WWII combat simulator

 

[frank3]

...near the bottom of a really busy to-do list in a flight sim.

Never thought I'd correct Moot on this...

WWII Combat sim

[Dream Child]

Wirble wind is now the most used base defence weapon (or so it seems) and it should be modeled right.

If it were modeled somewhat correctly, we might find the Osty to be more usefull, kinda like real life...

[Strip]

Anyone just jump in the Ostwind for its increased range knowing most aircraft wont tangle with WirbleWind?

Its fun killing low bombers that the WW cant touch.

[alskahawk]

 GV modeling is off in this game..Jeeps, Wirblys etc. Most complex in AH? Doubtful. Given the growing popularity of GVs..a remodeling would be nice addition as well as a expanded GV list.

 Kubelwagon
 PzV
 German Armoured car
 SU 85/SU 100
 KV1
 Grant
Cromwell
Bishop 
M 24
M 3 Stuart
Priest