Author Topic: Best plane.  (Read 2994 times)

Offline Steve

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2009, 03:55:56 PM »
Good. This looks like an opportunity to get a tactical clue.

I recognize, first, that when they are slow, yes, I have an advantage and can take a snapshot.

Well if he's pulling hard, your snapshot is going to require significant G's to pull. This means bleeding E.    Pass on the snap shot and go up... dictate the fight from there(reset your SA here as well).  The hog pilot wants you to pull for that snapshot for a couple of reasons... the E bleeding I mentioned and he may be able to get back in line on your 6 after your shot attempt for a fading 6 shot. If you want to play for a while, make a couple or 3 passes at him and beat the E out oh him until he is wallowing and at your mercy. If you must dispatch him with alacrity, make that first pass to slow him down, get on top of him then attack from vert, using roll rather than turn to get your nose on him.(simplified a bit).  As mentioned, fight the hogs up up up. With the -4 do the same, just allow for his quicker E regeneration.

With the ballistics of the D9 cannon and the K4 tater, a high G snap shot is not impossible, but it will require more G's and skill than say.... US .50 cals.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2009, 03:58:27 PM »
Vudak, Thanks.

The K-4 climbs like a ground-raped monkey - indeed is probably the best vertical fighter in the planeset. I say that as a guy who also likes the Tempest and all the F-Dubs. Generally, if I need to reverse in a K-4, I'll pull vertical and loop and roll - an Immelmann, I guess. Thus, I should be able to always stay above a non-perked F4U and get on his 6 via an Immelmann, correct?

From there,  I should be able to get a firing pass - there's probably a solution for single shot, maybe two with the tater gun before he evades.

The good news, if I read you right, is that he shouldn't be able to touch me as long as I start with an altitude advantage - although he'll always have a better low-speed flat turn and I'll always be watching my airspeed on the downside of those verticals.

Probably the next F4U I see will be a HO. But, doubtless, this'll come in handy someday. I always try to remember, e.g., with the D-9 (stay fast, don't try to turn fight with a Spit, Yak, A6M, etc, don't try to outdive a P-47, don't ho with an IL2... etc. etc.) what my advantages/disadvantages are but really hadn't analyzed the F4U yet.  

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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2009, 04:09:51 PM »
Thanks Steve, I got a kill last week on a Skeeter that was foolish enough to try to follow my k-4 up. I couldn't help but notice his stall. I reversed and tatered him. It was some PLA (is that some LGBT thing here at AHII? - not that there's anything wrong with...)  pilot - BigRed, I want to say.

Otherwise, your tactical advice looks sound. It looks like my problem is in attempting that snap - I always do - instead of working him over a bit more. The fading 6 shot sounds like him coming around on his flat turn as I climb away from the snap with diminished E, correct?

Otherwise, consider this 'nuff said: '96 LT4 CE coupe with the GS suspension package (and about 40k miles on it, an LPE cam, limited to 6400 rpm instead of 6k, flowmaster quaddies, and the sole cosmetic mod of an aluminum Radical cueball for the ZF - you know what I'm talking about C-4 boy, something we appear to share)...

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Offline Vudak

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2009, 04:35:02 PM »
Vudak, Thanks.

The K-4 climbs like a ground-raped monkey - indeed is probably the best vertical fighter in the planeset. I say that as a guy who also likes the Tempest and all the F-Dubs. Generally, if I need to reverse in a K-4, I'll pull vertical and loop and roll - an Immelmann, I guess. Thus, I should be able to always stay above a non-perked F4U and get on his 6 via an Immelmann, correct?

From there,  I should be able to get a firing pass - there's probably a solution for single shot, maybe two with the tater gun before he evades.

The good news, if I read you right, is that he shouldn't be able to touch me as long as I start with an altitude advantage - although he'll always have a better low-speed flat turn and I'll always be watching my airspeed on the downside of those verticals.

Probably the next F4U I see will be a HO. But, doubtless, this'll come in handy someday. I always try to remember, e.g., with the D-9 (stay fast, don't try to turn fight with a Spit, Yak, A6M, etc, don't try to outdive a P-47, don't ho with an IL2... etc. etc.) what my advantages/disadvantages are but really hadn't analyzed the F4U yet.  



There's no trick that works every time, but let's say you were diving in on his 6 and he made a hard break turn to the left.  If you follow him, try to pull lead pursuit to shoot him in that break turn, he is going to use your speed against you, barrel roll to the right, and put you in front of his guns.

Instead, you have a few options.  When he breaks, you could pull back on your stick to start a climb.  You could then roll to your left a bit to keep him in sight, and begin pulling towards him from higher above, and still in his six.  If he reverses towards the right, you could then do the same thing, but this time to the right.  Remember, every time he makes a hard, flat, break turn, he is losing energy.  When you go up, you are banking a little.  Once he makes a few of these, he might still have the energy to be able to turn a very tight circle, but will he be able to get around it before you swoop in for the shot?  That is the question.

Alternately, if you have an incredible excess of speed, and he breaks hard to the left, you could go up, and make a large barrel roll towards the right.  When you are coming towards the bottom of your roll, you would then pull towards him.  This is assuming (for simplicity's sake) that he elected to just go for one 90 degree break turn.

The idea I'm trying to get across (and hopefully someone better at expressing it will come along shortly) is that in a general, over simplified sense, if you're faster and on the Corsair's six, you have three pursuit options:

Lead, Pure, and Lag Pursuit.

Lead will see you pulling for the shot in his break turn, possibly missing the shot, and quite possibly overshooting him;
Pure pursuit will cause your bullets to miss (in this example, since he's breaking and you therefore need to shoot ahead of him), and will also allow him to reverse you, causing an overshoot;
Lag pursuit will help you stay behind him, to set up a shot later.  The two ideas listed above are examples of how to try and stay in lag pursuit.

I wouldn't go with an Immelman, as that would have you going in the opposite direction, and at the start of his break turn we do not know if he is going to extend it a full 180 degrees.  If he doesn't, and you do, now he's bought some time to build up some energy, and you have to waste some to turn back towards him and eventually dive down to get him.

Edit - at some point you may want to dump some speed to pull for a shot...  It is a balancing act of being able to put guns on your target, not overshoot, and still have the E to follow his next move.  Practice, practice, practice :)

Hope this helps  :salute
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 04:39:24 PM by Vudak »
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Offline Steve

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2009, 04:49:21 PM »

 The fading 6 shot sounds like him coming around on his flat turn as I climb away from the snap with diminished E, correct?

Otherwise, consider this 'nuff said:, flowmaster quaddies, and the sole cosmetic mod of an aluminum Radical cueball for the ZF - you know what I'm talking about C-4 boy, something we appear to share)...


The 6 shot I'm referring to is where the target reverses his turn as you miss your snap attempt and gets back online with your 6. Unless your E state difference is such that you can get out of range before he brings guns to bear, you risk losing tail feathers. Obviously if you disguise some of your E with a spiral , you may be able to bait them into a rope here. For that, look up a thread with the term "spiral rope" in the title.... I put a couple of short films in there along with a write up.  These films show no spectacular moves but they show how to execute the spiral rope. Aww heck, here's the link if you are interested:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,250723.0.html

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2009, 05:51:39 PM »
If they are pulling a tight, low speed turn to evade, they are surrendering to you and you should kill them every single  time this happens.

Until the Tempest blows his E trying to turn with the Corsair, which then flaps him to death.

So many people look at the Corsair as a one-trick pony because of Der Uberflappen. As good as the Corsair is slow with flaps out she's even BETTER when she's fast. You MUST beware of the Corsair's high-speed handling because the Corsair doesn't even NEED its flaps against the Tempest. There is NO speed at which the Tempest will out-maneuver the Hog. Turn rate and radius and rate of roll the Corsair owns the Tempest at all airspeeds, so even in a high-speed fight if a Tempest tries to turn with an F4U that Tempest is dead. The only real advantage the Tempest has against the F4U is the one Anaxagoras mentioned: Its ability to motor its bellybutton out of Dodge when the F4U inevitably gets around behind it.

Incidentally, wasn't there been information posted on one of the other forums that the Tempest's acceleration is actually SIGNIFICANTLY over-modeled?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 05:55:36 PM by Saxman »
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Offline Steve

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2009, 05:59:48 PM »
Until the Tempest blows his E trying to turn with the Corsair, which then flaps him to death.

Uhhh I  said nothing about turning with the corsair who uses a tight turn to avoid a gun pass so your tempest story has literally nothing to do with my advice.  Additionally, neither  PJ nor myself mentioned Tempest in the conversation we were having with each other. I have no earthly idea why you quoted me as your response has absoultely nothing to do with anything I posted.
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Offline moot

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2009, 06:10:15 PM »
Saxman - It may or may not be the Tempest, or a systemic issue.. If you mean that not-scaled chart at wwiiaircraftperformance.org.
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Offline A8HatTrick

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2009, 08:49:34 AM »
No... everyone doesn't

I meant at one point or another since starting the game. You have NEVER flown any of these since your first day?  Granted, there are alot of us who dont fly them at all anymore, but at one point or another we did when starting the game.

ITs like training wheels, they are airplanes that you grow out of.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2009, 09:01:13 AM »
Alternately, if you have an incredible excess of speed, and he breaks hard to the left, you could go up, and make a large barrel roll towards the right.  When you are coming towards the bottom of your roll, you would then pull towards him.  This is assuming (for simplicity's sake) that he elected to just go for one 90 degree break turn.


This sounds like the Yo-yo...

Per Steve's request, how do you insert a file on this site?
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Offline A8HatTrick

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2009, 09:28:54 AM »
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=help;page=post#bbcref

There is a list of code there on how to accomplish just about anything
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2009, 09:53:06 AM »
Well, this confirms it. I'm not enabled to attach and the requested pic is living on my local drive - thus the insert image is of little use sinse any URL I'm likely to post the pic too would not be public-facing.

Does the admin grant attachment enabling, typically? How do I request this?
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2009, 10:18:46 AM »
Without question, the F4U-4 is the best all around fighter in the game. However, I find the Brewster B-239 to the most entertaining ride (download the Beta to fly it). Killed several F4Us with it rather easily. While the F4U is a great turner with the flaps out, the Brewster rivals the A6M2; meaning that a slow, flaps out F4U is a very dead F4U.


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Offline Lusche

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2009, 10:22:07 AM »
Well, this confirms it. I'm not enabled to attach and the requested pic is living on my local drive - thus the insert image is of little use sinse any URL I'm likely to post the pic too would not be public-facing.

Does the admin grant attachment enabling, typically? How do I request this?

You simply have to upload your pic to any hosting service, for example http://imageshack.us/

You will get an url (like this http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2016/sheepracing.jpg )that you embed in your posting here with the proper tag, resulting in:

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:25:43 AM by Lusche »
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Best plane.
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2009, 10:25:36 AM »
okay.

Here you go, Steve...

Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.