Author Topic: Something interesting about Fw190s... (Read 1692 times)

MrCoffee · « **Reply #30 on:** July 05, 2003, 09:40:47 PM »

>setting ideal trim

Then theres also the possibility that my flying style might have changed. I may have been flying more aggresively etc.. and the combat trim just could not keep up.

In manual trim, 190A handled ok for all conditions, though Im constantly triming of course.

john9001 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2003, 09:45:39 PM »

ok, AH 190 pilots use trim that was not on the real 190 then complain that the AH 190 does not fly like a real 190 (that they have never flown), is that right?

this sounds like one more LW whine about the LW planes not being as UBER as they think they were in real life. you guys never give up.

AH trim should be disabled for any planes that did not have that trim in RL.

Regurge · « **Reply #32 on:** July 05, 2003, 11:35:41 PM »

Mandoble I don't totally understand what problems you're talking about. What do you mean by "control response is 100% dependant on trim at any speed"? Technically that means trim controls the plane entirely and stick movement does nothing. But I realize this is not what you meant.

It sounded to me like you had to use trim to pull tight turns at speeds where control stiffness/compressibility is not a factor. If that is true there is something wrong with your setup.

My comment is true for the vast majority of single engine fighters. AFAIK the Spit 1 is the only exception. From 120-220mph it can't pull hard enough to blackout and can't pull into a stall, though it comes very close. I know for a fact that all 190s and 109s can pull a into blackout or stall at all speeds where contol stiffness/ compressibility is not an issue. And they can do that no matter where the trim is set. If you can't do that you aren't getting full control deflection for some reason. Not calibrating your stick in-game is one reason I know of.

If this isnt the problem you're having please explain what the real problem is.

Maverick · « **Reply #33 on:** July 05, 2003, 11:49:30 PM »

Bodhi,

After reading your response and the manner in wich it was posted the only proper response is to say to you, stuff it.

What I put in the thread wasn't in response to your posts. If you want to take it that way, that's your perogative and problem.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #34 on:** July 06, 2003, 06:43:42 AM »

Regurge, try the following with 190D9 at different speeds (200, 300, 400 mph) at 10k and record the flight:

1 - With trim centered, pull back the stick until you stall the plane.
2 - With trim centered, push the stick until you invert the plane looking in the opposite way.
3 - With trim fully nose up, pull back the stick until you stall the plane.
4 - With trim fully nose up, push the stick until you invert the plane looking in the opposite way.
5 - With trim fully nose down, pull back the stick until you stall the plane.
6 - With trim fully nose down, push the stick until you invert the plane looking in the opposite way.

Now go to the film viewer and check the effect of the different moves, and you will notice how dependet are control effectiveness on trim possitions.

You can repeat the test with a Typh, you will notice that elevator trim is almost unnecesary to obtain fully elevator response at almost any speed.

And my joy setup is common for every plane, and shows my stick perfectly centered and reaching the limits without spikes.

About your comment of planes reaching black out or stalls at any speed, the point is not only being able or not to reach these limits, but also the time needed to reach them.

straffo · « **Reply #35 on:** July 06, 2003, 07:17:10 AM »

MAN as a former Tyffy pilot switching to 190 I agree with you but it won't change a thing : the 190's is extremely more survivable and easy to fly.

I didn't say newbie plane I've say : easy plane.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2003, 07:36:36 AM »

Are you talking about the Dora straffo?

I hate that plane - I find it makes me fight a really boring style...

straffo · « **Reply #37 on:** July 06, 2003, 08:22:40 AM »

A8 and D9 even if I prefer the A8

Bodhi · « **Reply #38 on:** July 06, 2003, 10:57:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Bodhi,

After reading your response and the manner in wich it was posted the only proper response is to say to you, stuff it.

What I put in the thread wasn't in response to your posts. If you want to take it that way, that's your perogative and problem.

Mav,
You need to take a seriously hard core chill pill... I only looked at the obvious when you used my analogy. Cripes somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed and needs to go back in and restart.

Regurge · « **Reply #39 on:** July 06, 2003, 10:19:49 PM »

Mandoble I did the tests you described.

At 400mph the controls seemd to be stiffening so using trim added some extra control authority. I believe that is correct behavior for most planes.

At 200 and 300mph pulling back on the stick produced the same results no matter where the trim was set. Each time the plane pitched up and in 1-2 seconds stalled and spun to the left. The only effect trim had was to change how far the stick must be pulled to cause a stall. I believe this is correct because to my knowledge AH models stick movement as applying a force to the virtual control stick.

The stick forward tests did actually show a change in control authority depending on trim. With the plane on the runway, I went to external view and zoomed in close to the elevator. With the stick all the way forward, I could see the elevator move slightly when changing trim. This definitely should not happen as maximum deflection should not depend on trim. This was supposed to be fixed some time ago. Oddly, it only does that with down-elevator for me. With up-elevator, aileron, and rudder maximum deflection is the same no matter where trim is set.

I don't know if this happens for everyone else or if its just me. I recalibrated my stick and played with the range of motion but nothing changed.

Try the test I did and see if trim changes maximum control deflection.

Shiva · « **Reply #40 on:** July 07, 2003, 08:45:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
AH trim should be disabled for any planes that did not have that trim in RL.

Fine, as long as you make all the planes that didn't have automatic engine management like the FW-190 have to handle manifold pressure, throttle, mixture, cowl flaps, radiator flaps, etc. manually, just like the real planes. And do away with the automatic fuel management.

I can see extending the automatic engine and fuel management to crewed planes -- bombers -- on the premise that your copilot could be handling these things for you. But if you're alone in your plane, you should have to handle all of the manual tasks required to fly your plane. Including the little detail quirks like the twelve cranks of the handwheel to retract the gear on an F4F...

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #41 on:** July 07, 2003, 01:11:20 PM »

Regurge, in my tests, I noticed same limitations for up/down elevator trim/max deflection. At 300 / 200 mph, I notice a BIG difference pulling up between having nose trim down/nose trim up/nose centered, same for pushing down the stick. This is even noticeable at 100-150 mph when taking off or landing.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2003, 04:56:56 PM »

Shiva,

You are talking about two different things.

The point is you can't trim a FW190 for lateral stabilty at all.

You can manage your engine in any aircraft weather it's auto or not.

It's more like you can't use the divebrake key for A/C that don't have divebrakes.

And BTW I would luv to have engine mangement. That would mean you could overboost for extra speed or performance when you have to for short periods of time. That was common in WW2.