New perks to be implemented

[-ammo-]

You know, I think you just want to squeak for the sake of it.  You have turned this into a piss and moan fest.  Have at it.  You seem to think this whole thought of min revolves around the P-47 for me, that is not true.  You are entitled to your opinion, you have expressed it.  I dont agree.  


What is your in-game handle?

[J_A_B]

My in-game ID is JAB00021

You will find I fly the P-51D, don't play too terribly much, and aren't that great a pilot.  I especially suck at 1 vs 1, which isn't reflected in the stats.

Seriously, if you REALLY do want to improve usage of planes like the Jug, and aren't just frustrated at the nature of the AH planeset, why must you limit the options of others?   Instead of forcing people into "disadvantaged" planes--which will just ruin the game for people who might not like those aircraft--why not give people an incentive to fly them, like a MASSIVE difference in ENY value?  

J_A_B

[Staga]

I'm not sure what would be the reason to perk those planes ?

Why should HTC perk 'em Ammo ?

[Staga]

Let's see what planes HTC perked:
Ar-234: Fast bomber. Too fast for most of planes in AH.
Tempest: Fast,agile and powerful with 4*20mm Hispanos.
Ta-152: Fast @30k, Very rare bird in WW2.
F4U-1c: 4*Pulverizers with loads of ammo.
F4U-4: Fast as heck, lot's of power with nice gun-pack.
Me-262: Fast SOB with 4*30mm.
-------
P-51D: Nice guns, fast when flown straight and high.
Me-109 G-10: Fast, climbs like a homesick angel. Not too good armament.
La-7: Fast in low-med alts, good punch with 3*20mm.

Perk these and you need to perk all P-47's too. They're fast in high, have good range and Great guns with huge ammo-load and can carry nice bomb-load when needed.

hmm this had to be a troll... Good one Ammo!

[Wotan]

if all you fly is a p51d dont expect alot of perks.

is it unfair to you that any plane is perked?

thats what you sound like to me.

I like the perk idea much better then a rps. without either why would folks who rather not fly late war planes get involved in flying ah.

Your hostility at ammo is just there to mask your hostility at the perk system in general.

the f4u-1 is a great looking plane all but a hardcore few fly it same with the d11 and many others. Why is it in htc interest to model a stuka a spit mk1 or 109e3 or a early zeke if everyone flies 3 or 4 late war planes. There needs to be some balance.

p51 is a great plane I used to be in a squad that was p51 oriented. perk points are there for something and maybe by perking it it may get you out of that p51d and into that p51b.

If ya wanna real hoot grab a 205. You'll get perks in that plane.

All this is moot this is HT game I dunnae think he would perk a p51d  

However I agree with ammo.

[Wilbus]

Why? The idea with perkin is, either because the planes saw very little action or that they are so much better then the others that they need to be perked, wich is the same thing as "everybody flies them, arena unbalanced". That's the reason the F4uC got perked, everybody flew it (well not everybody but damn many) and it had somehting like 20% of all total kills.

You don't perk a plane just because it is fast, or because it has got good cannons, the ability to run does not make a plane good.
Sure, both LA7, P51D and 109D9 are fairly high up in the Kill ranking, 109 is a bit further down. But all these planes can be outmanuvered but slower ones. La7 kicks some serious arnold but only bellow 10k or so, Dora beast above 10k although it can run at all alts, same with P51. 109G10 is fast, good low speed handeling but damn poor high speed handeling wich makes it quite hard to B&Z in, a good pilot can definatly use this to his advantage vs the 109.

Many planes are FAR easier both to survive in and to kill in then some of teh above (109 especially) and because of that they should be perked? 109G10 saw ALOT of action, Dora and P51D so alot of action, don't know about LA7.

Don't perk them, instead, implant some more perks, P47M, Spit 14 maybe?

[Toad]

So, ammo, all this thread and I'm still not sure.

Do you want the P-51D, the FW190D, the Bf109-G10 and the LA7 perked because they have the speed to dictate the fight? Or is it something else?

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Toad:
So, ammo, all this thread and I'm still not sure.

Do you want the P-51D, the FW190D, the Bf109-G10 and the LA7 perked because they have the speed to dictate the fight? Or is it something else?

Well partly, it's there speed and great capabilities that drive their usage.  Its their usage and the sheer amount of them I see in the arena that prompted me to make this post.  I see that it was not well met either.  Didnt mean to step on your's or anyone else's toe's though .

[Wutz]

Perhaps with the new bomber system in 1.09 the Jug can see more action. It could turn the Main Arena into something new. It could move the Altitude of furballs from 5K too 20K. Since the bombers will become around 40% off the total number of birds in the sky vs the 5-15% it is today. Then perhaps the Perking of an LA-7 or N1K2 would be meaningless? Since they dont realy have a good High alt Performnc. Since the bombers now, have too be stopped!

[Toad]

Originally posted by -ammo-:

....Its their usage and the sheer amount of them I see in the arena that prompted me to make this post

So basically this is an argument in favor of perking planes that get used a lot?

If the customer base really likes to fly a particular plane and it is thus used a lot in the MA it should be perked?

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Toad:


So basically this is an argument in favor of perking planes that get used a lot?

If the customer base really likes to fly a particular plane and it is thus used a lot in the MA it should be perked?

Not neccesarily.  The spitIX has over 18,000 kills as of day 22 of this tour..meaning it gets used alot. But I don't think it deserves a perk.  I think it gets alot of use because it does well in furballs and is pretty forgiving to fly.  But it can't dictate the fight. It doesn't have the speed.  

Do you think that if the ME262 were unperked,  would be a pretty popular ride with the customer base in the MA?  Would you advocate it as a perk?

[R4M]

you know the funny thing here?...that he has included NO P-47 in that list. Even when he's got two latewar ones to toy with   .

If your standard for perking is historical introduction dates, you must put two P47s in that group too   .

If your standard for perking is usage, no reason to perk the planes you've mentioned.

If your standard for perking is WWII rarity, no reason to perk the planes you've mentioned.

If your standard for perking is the plane performance, then please start by unperking the TA152, or lowering its value under that of a La7  


FWIW, I sincerely think that any plane introduced after February'44 should be perked. That includes the Dora, the 109G10, the P51D,P47D25, P47D30, La7, Yak9u, etc. The latewar monsters in the MA would be way more rare than what they are now.

I wont perk the P51B, tho, and there would still be an uber-fast plane for people to jump in. But, see, what I would like as standard for perking planes would be mainly historical introduction dates. I know is not going to happen anyway, because the standards used right now are:

1- Non-perked plane would be overused in the arena (Tempest, C-hog, Spit XIV when it comes...)

2- Historical rarity (Ar234, Ta-152)

and then is the Me262 wich is perked because performance. Rightly so, the 262 should be the ONLY plane perked because performance. (as I dont think He162, P80 or Meteor have a place in AH)


That just IMO, of course.

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Toad]

Ok, so now the thesis is that a fast plane that can dictate the fight and is popular (used a lot by the player base) should be perked?

Not trying to rag you, just trying to fully understand your position.

As for the 262, I'm on record for ever and ever on this board as viewing the whole perk system as unnecessary.

I don't care what anyone flies. If EVERYONE was in a 262, I'd still kill the ones that fly it incorrectly in my P-51 or C-205 or whatever. It would change the game from what it is of course.. but I simply don't worry about what the other guy is flying. I concentrate on flying mine to the best of my ability, trying to stay alive and getting what kills I can.

Besides, I don't think that even unperked EVERYONE would fly the 262. Perked, most 262's are flown correctly and they are a tough kill.

More of them unperked? Sure. Lots more flown incorrectly than correctly and thus perhaps easier kills on them overall.

But then I was never worried about the DREADED C-HOG PROBLEM!!!!! either.  I killed lots and lots of those.  

[Karnak]

Toad,

I agree with you that the aircraft proposed for perking in this thread should not be perked, however I think you are mistaken when you attribute some people's desire to have certain aircraft perked to their (supposed) inability to, or difficulty in, killing them.

Many people who want these aircraft perked, and many who wanted the F4U-1C perked, have no trouble killing them, they simply see a better game if they were more "controled".

In many cases they are not much less altruistic than you "Fly what you want, let the other guy fly what he wants" take on it.  In other words, many of them want what they see as best for the game, not what is particularly best for them.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Karnak:
, however I think you are mistaken when you attribute some people's desire to have certain aircraft perked to their (supposed) inability to, or difficulty in, killing them.

With all due respect, I don't think I said that. If it was taken that way, I didn't write clearly enough. My apologies.

I viewed C-Hogs as pretty easy kills, true. You just had to keep them from getting guns on you and that dictated your flying style. So, seeing a bunch didn't bother me because what the other guy flies is HIS choice, not mine. Just another target to me, this one was blue.

Interestingly, some of the most vocal complaints about the C-Hog were that "now you only fight one or two types of aircraft in the MA". The irony is that this was often voiced by proponents of the CA, where you'd ALWAYS be fighting only one or two types of aircraft.  

 

 In other words, many of them want what they see as best for the game, not what is particularly best for them.

That's fine with me too. Constructive criticism improves the game. However, one always has to bear in mind that what one wants as "best for the game" may not be what the vast majority of players desires. The majority may not agree at all.

I think the Combat Arena is a perfect example. Since day one there's been a hue and cry for many of the things embodied in the CA. Yet once established, it turned out to be a ghost town. While it had many of the elements that folks had been crying for, it didn't have what EACH INDIVIDUAL felt was best. In short, it pleased no one because it tried to please a few.

Simply put, the majority of the players like the MA far, far more than the CA. A hard pill to swallow, I expect, when one finds out the unwashed majority doesn't agree with your particular goals. Perhaps the CA can be tweaked and altered to make it more popular but I doubt it will ever approach the popularity of the MA. Once again, I think HTC knows its market.


I am opposed to this "perk popularity" idea, however. If HTC introduces an aircraft lots of players really like for sentimentality, performance, sex appeal.. whatever.. why should other players complain? It's the individual's $15.

As the planset gets larger and larger in the years to come, I think this will be less and less of a problem. There's lots of good aircraft yet to be modeled.

Sooner or later though, I think HTC will have to find a way to allow early war, mid-war and late war to coexist a little more rationally. It may be separate arenas; I don't have the answer. But I trust HTC to find one.  

My bottom line is simple and it's in my sig.

Cyas up there!