bf109 .. why two names for same aircraft?

[jpeg]

I've noticed that a lot of places the bf109 is refered to as the me109 .. they are the same aircraft right? So why the different naming convention?

[AKSWulfe]

Bf denotes the factory that the majority of 109s were built at (I don't know the exact name of the factory) and Me denotes those aircraft built at the Messerschmitt factory.
-SW

[R4M]

The plane is the same, but the company changed name.  Messerschmitt and Bayerische Fleugzeugwerke (there you have the BF   ) are the same company, only the name was changed in 1941.

Before that time, all messerschmitts were BF (Bf109...Bf110...) after it all messerchmitts were ME (Me109...Me110...Me262...).


Some people think the plane was named ME for the same reason the Ta152 was named that way (to honor the chief designer, Kurt Tank), but are different cases. Messerchmitt was the name of the FIRM and the planes were called MeXXX, while Ta-152 was still a Focke-Wulf aircraft.

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[R4M]

Originally posted by SWulfe:
Bf denotes the factory that the majority of 109s were built at (I don't know the exact name of the factory) and Me denotes those aircraft built at the Messerschmitt factory.
-SW

Not right, Seawulfe: before 1941 the company name was Bayerische Fleugzeugwerke, and all its products (regardless of the factory where they were built) were named BF. After the company name change all its products were called ME-XXX, no longer BF-XXX.

[AKSWulfe]

Why have I only seen 109G's and (the few)109K's listed as Bf's as opposed to Me's?

I've seen more 109Fs and earlier listed as Me than the later models.

<shrug>
-SW

[Raubvogel]

I just happen to have a write up about this on our web site  

The story of Messerschmitt AG is also the story of it's Chief Engineer and namesake, Dr. Willy Messerschmitt. Messerschmitt AG evolved from the State-owned Bayrische Flugzeugwerke (Bavarian Aircraft Works). In 1929, a finance group controlled by a relative of Willy Messerschmitt's wife bought a majority of the shares of Bayrische Flugzeugwerke. The company went through hard times in the early 1930's, and was saved only by the intervention of Rudolf Hess-who would later become Adolph Hitler's Deputy. After bankruptcy proceedings in 1933, BFW was able to go back into aircraft production.
 
In 1934, Messerschmitt built his first all-metal low-wing monoplane-the M 37 (later designated the Bf108). This would be the predecessor to his most famous design, the Bf109. The Bf109 would be produced in greater numbers than any other combat aircraft. After 1938, the Bayrische Flugzeugwerke became Messerschmitt AG. Designs after this time would receive the ME prefix. In addition to the Bf109, Bf110, Me210/410, the Messerschmitt team would be responsible for producing the world's first operational jet fighter-the infamous Me-262.

[jpeg]

Thanks for the info Raubvogel and R4M!

[HoHun]

Hi Jpeg,

I'd like to add that Bf (capital B, lower case f) remained the Reichsluftfahrtministerium's (air ministry's) designation of the series, but Messerschmitt referred to the type as Me 109 (capital M, lower case e) after the change to Messerschmitt AG. At the same time, companies like Erla who were license-producing the aircraft, stayed with the Bf designation.

There are official RLM documents that refer to Messerschmitt's fighter as Bf 109 and Me 109 on the same page :-)

Me 109 was also used by the Luftwaffe's propaganda magazin "Der Adler" ('The Eagle'), and it could well have been this one that made the M-E 1-0-9 designation popular outside Germany: "Der Adler" until 1941 was distributed internationally, with each picture actually featuring a second, English caption for the American readers.

German pilots and groundcrew invariably referred to the aircraft as "Me 109" (in German use pronounced as "May Hundred-Nine") anyway.

By the way, the well-known subtype designations "Emil", "Friedrich" and "Gustav" were merely simply phonetic codes for the designation letter. The earlier Messerschmitts likewise were referred to as "Anton", "Berta", "Cäsar" and "Dora" - none of these were nicknames in the true sense, and could be applied for all aircraft types - "Dora" in particular rising to fame as the Fw 190D-9's name.

You might have noticed I typed "Friedrich" and not "Franz" - "Franz" was never used by the Luftwaffe since it was neither in the phonetic alphabet nor fit for inclusion, as it could be easily confused with "Hans" :-)

"Friedrich" could be abbreviated "Fritz" in everyday use, but "Franz" is a faux pas that in my opinion originated with Air Warrior, just like the "Niki" designation. Maybe even worse than "Niki", since the programmers called the Me 109F "Franz" in the actual plane selection menu!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[vector at work]

Hi

RAM got it right. I also recall that in general allied used Me-109 when referred to Bf-109 or Me-109, that could explain why Me-109 pops up more often.

vector

[chisel1]

Every single 109 series plane was tagged (ID Plate) Bf109 no matter where it was built

All new A/C series 210 163 262 etc. released into production after company name change were tagged Me

RLM/Luftwaffe Official designation was changed to Me109 after factory name change

When they changed hands from the factory pilots to the Luftwaffe the name changed from Bf to Me on paper only.

[butch2k]

No, ID plates could carry either Bf 109 or Me 109. I saw some of them carrying the later, i believe i have a picture somewhere at home showing such a plate.

Found one :
check this picture : http://therapist109.tripod.com/walkaround/163306/163306.dataplate.jpg

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: butch2k ]

[GRUNHERZ]

I never understood the controversy over Bf/Me its clear both were used interchangably wheter officially and informally  in the case of the 109. Its clear change from Bf to Me was because the company changed from Bayerische Flugzeug to Messerschmitt AG.

Why do people even care or argue about this anymore?

[Kweassa]

Bayern = Bavaria?

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[-lynx-]

The Bf109 would be produced in greater numbers than any other combat aircraft.

Small correction there Raub - IL2 takes the top spot with 109 close second.

[Wingnut_0]

Originally posted by Kweassa:
Bayern = Bavaria?

 ...
 
   

Yes Bayern is Deutsch for Bavaria Kweassa.