Author Topic: IL2 Better Than AH2?  (Read 1281 times)

Offline skribetm

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IL2 Better Than AH2?
« on: August 01, 2009, 01:29:24 AM »
 :rofl  :rofl  :rofl

i know right?

trying to advocate for this game landed me in hot water at this forum.

seems its useless to change their minds specially when they'd rather have flashy graphics than flight physics accuracy.  :cry

http://www.overclock.net/video-game-news/549167-txb-il-2-sturmovik-birds-prey.html#post6825246


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Offline batch

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 01:34:13 AM »
its a hard recognition if you are playing this game already...... the blind eye if you will

however you have to put yourself outside the box for a minute and look at what drives the market force

flashy graphics will draw a much larger audience than realistic all day long

larger audiece = larger paycheck

which would you prefer on the other side of the screen......... a larger paycheck or a minority audience thats satisfied?
"theres nothin like wakin up with a Dickens Cider" - Dickens Fruit Stand

Offline Lazerr

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 01:40:49 AM »
Id vote for a realistic flight model...

Offline Strip

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 01:42:25 AM »
In some ways IL-2 is better than AcesHigh.....

I would like to see things like prop pitch, gun jams, overrev, overheat, cowl flaps, engine fires, and mixture controls.

Take some of the sim from IL-2, add it to AH and I would never sleep.

Offline Xasthur

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2009, 01:45:35 AM »
There is always focus on a 'converting' people to 'better' things or things that you like....

What will it achieve?

In the case of music it achieves nothing other than scores of leperous bananas at gigs and bands that get lazy because they're making money from their music.

In this case it will only achieve an increase in the number of bananas on 200 and range channels and bloated arenas which descend into gang-tard vulch fests.

The game is great the way it is, don't spoil it by hoarding in as many bell-ends as you can find.

Treat the things you enjoy like the One Ring...... and in the words of Gandalf "Keep it secret, keep it safe".

Inviting large numbers of people to anything is a recipe for ruin.  :aok
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Offline Ruler2

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2009, 01:48:12 AM »

I would like to see things like prop pitch, gun jams, overrev, overheat, cowl flaps, engine fires, and mixture controls.


Answers for these requests
prop pitch:fly over a tree
gun jam:get someone to shoot out your gun
overrev:use all your gas on WEP
engine fires:shoot a plane in the right spot and it becomes a bottle rocket
overheat:lose radiator


 :D  see,we have all these things,just not in the way you would think,lol

Offline texastc316

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2009, 02:21:46 AM »
just agree with them so they dont come over here  :devil
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Offline Karnak

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 02:38:19 AM »
In some ways IL-2 is better than AcesHigh.....

I would like to see things like prop pitch, gun jams, overrev, overheat, cowl flaps, engine fires, and mixture controls.

Take some of the sim from IL-2, add it to AH and I would never sleep.
AH has prop pitch.  That is what the RPM controls are.

Gun jams would be almost impossible to do realistically.  Il-2 just fudges in numbers with no basis in reality.

Over speeding is something that could be added, but not something that would have much effect.  Almost all aircraft in AH have constant speed props that don't suffer this until the aircraft is going very, very fast.

Il-2's overheating is less realistic than AH's.  Any overheat model in a sim is a game device used to promote or discourage certain player behaviors, not a realistic simulation.  Cowl flaps/radiator controls are just an extention of this.

AH could use a better fire model, true.

Asking for mixture controls is just asking for another button to push.
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Offline gpa3

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2009, 03:10:22 AM »
If you like playing peer to peer with about 8 players IL2... ummm still sucks. But that's just my opinion. Talk about choppy graphics! Took me a week to uninstall that pig. Probably still didn't get it all removed. It puts crap all over the registry and doesn't remove it when you uninstall the game. I think maybe it was programmed by third graders. Peer to peer games are full of cheats and cheaters. Better to stick with large multiplayer games and pay a small price per month to keep fair play and much larger play rooms.

Offline LYNX

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2009, 03:35:38 AM »
its a hard recognition if you are playing this game already...... the blind eye if you will

however you have to put yourself outside the box for a minute and look at what drives the market force

flashy graphics will draw a much larger audience than realistic all day long

larger audiece = larger paycheck

which would you prefer on the other side of the screen......... a larger paycheck or a minority audience thats satisfied?

I have to agree totally.  I've monitored channel 6 help a fare bit.  The number of times I've seen newbies type "this game is chit..the graphics suck".  That's their first impression.  I've tried telling them "it's about the fight and flight model...not what it looks like".  Once their negged out their off especially when their ho'ing newbie arse's are handed to them.

HitechCreations is a business so from their point of view...the more the merrier.  HT did say he wanted more arenas with more players.  I'll wager HTC is envious of IL-2's success in marketing.  With the latest graphics upgrade I hope they can lock in new subscribers.  Read that as new targets for us. Perhaps convert some of the IL-2 guys that'll report back positive aspects of AH.    After all HTC deserve a pay off like we all do for our hard work. 

In fear of pissing off HT I would go as far as to say IL-2 is the main competition and I'd do me darnest to steal away IL-2 players and make them addicted AH subscribers.  Then again I might just go screw it .... A Corsair and a couple million bucks...yes I'll sell you AH  :x

Slightly off topic... I'm sure they have calculated that they'll take a small hit with unsubscribers that can't handle this graphics upgrade.... to be replaced with newbie subscribers that say "wow this looks great".

Offline PiratPX

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2009, 07:40:28 AM »
Eye candy is one thing, better FM and DM in il2 are another. My choice would be il2 with pre-patch AHII graphics and its MMO capability.

Offline Kweassa

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2009, 08:56:20 AM »
 Step out of the 20th century, and step out of the closed "flightsim community" mentality, and try to look at the world. To the newer generations, visuals and graphics are an intimate part of what constitutes the overall reality of a game. To them, the word "realism" is never complete without the visual aspect of it, and a "game that has good FM but lacking visuals" is just not going to cut it.

 When a certain game has some very inspiring, realistic graphics, it is more than likely the player would be satisfied by it alone, despite lacking realism in the FM department. People don't just start appreciating the 'realism of flight modelling' right away. It is only after one has given enough time and experience in enjoying a game with a 'realistic FM', that they finally begin to accept the wonderful dynamics of thrilling, realistic aerial combat, instead of the point-and-shoot arcade game.

 And, how are new players ever going to learn the joys of such realistic FM when they don't find the game intriguing in the first place?

 It's not as if our community is going to play AH forever. How longer can we play this game - 10, maybe 20 years before we go too old?

 If a game is going to survive, it needs a constant supply of new players - and we should try to understand that many of those new players, don't necessarily think in the way we do - the old, vets of the flightsim games who used to play when everything was in black and white, and the concept of 'graphics' wasn't even born yet.


 To the newer generations, what they see is what they feel - and if what they see is lacking graphics, then their gaming experience will also lag behind.

Offline Saxman

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2009, 09:06:19 AM »
Il-2's overheating is less realistic than AH's.  Any overheat model in a sim is a game device used to promote or discourage certain player behaviors, not a realistic simulation.  Cowl flaps/radiator controls are just an extention of this.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Some engines can't be run at maximum combat power more than a minute or two before blowing up in your face. Overheats are just LUDICROUSLY overdone.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2009, 10:28:50 AM »
When a certain game has some very inspiring, realistic graphics, it is more than likely the player would be satisfied by it alone, despite lacking realism in the FM department. People don't just start appreciating the 'realism of flight modelling' right away. It is only after one has given enough time and experience in enjoying a game with a 'realistic FM', that they finally begin to accept the wonderful dynamics of thrilling, realistic aerial combat, instead of the point-and-shoot arcade game.

I usually think your posts are spot on kweassa, but this time you are wrong to compare Il-2 to a point-and-shoot arcade game, especially because gunnery is significantly more difficult in the game vs AH, engine management is more difficult, taking hits to your wing degrades its performance, etc.  If anything, the AH arenas are far closer to an arcade game than anything that Il-2 has to offer (except for some of the really bad hyperlobby servers), but what makes AH shine is the massive-mulitplayer aspect and FSO.  Sure, the flight model may be a little better than Il-2, but it's a matter of degree and not even close to something decisive.

I enjoy Il-2 and AH for different reasons.  This puts me into a strange category of flight sim fan that can see what's good in both sims, as opposed to most of you who are just as rabidly committed to AH as the Il-2 fans are devoted to theirs.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Some engines can't be run at maximum combat power more than a minute or two before blowing up in your face. Overheats are just LUDICROUSLY overdone.

Which plane are you talking about specifically saxman?  Are you still cherry-picking that laboratory test of the F4U engine?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 10:37:40 AM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline Saxman

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Re: IL2 Better Than AH2?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2009, 11:47:24 AM »
Any plane I've taken up (and yes, I have played with more than just the F4U) within 2-3 minutes of combat power (this is without WEP or water injection, as well) the engine is over heating.

And if you've read my posts, you know that I LIKE the damage modelling and complex engine management of Il-2, so I'm not just pooh-poohing on it because it's the "other" sim.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.