Ta 152H-1 is 15-22mph too slow

[Fishu]

I were just having tests with Ta 152H-1, to see if its speed is right.

I digged up couple sources myself, both claiming it to have top speed of a. 466mph or more.
In another thread, some posted top speeds for Ta 152H-1 and their sources has about same speeds (465mph being slowest at high altitude)
The other thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008537.html

I used 50% main fuel and full ammo load.
Sea level / 355-360mph
41,000ft / 445-450mph
34,450ft / 450mph
29,529ft / 450mph

Speed was increasing *very* slowly and I quit testings after I didn't see movement of needle after couple of minutes.

I chose altitudes by charts that I saw in this address: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ta152h.html  

It says that Ta-152 H-1 would have following speeds:
34,451ft / 431mph (looks like without boosting or mixed up with 29kft?)
29,529ft / 466mph with MW-50
41,012ft / 472mph with MW-50 and GM-1

So, lack of speed ranged between 22-15mph above 29,500ft.
I say that is quite noticeable difference.


(yes yes, it's me again.. since nobody hasn't posted results yet)

[Ripsnort]

Was there wind involved?  Were you flying into the wind?  Offline default is 'no wind'?  (Jst questions, I have done no testing myself)

[flakbait]

Two more data sources for you:

Joe Baugher says:

 

Max speed: 332 sea level; 350 w/MW-50
465 mph at 29,530 ft w/ MW-50
472 mph at 41,010 w/GM-1

Service ceiling: 48,550 w/ GM-1
Initial climb: 3445 ft/min w/ MW-50 (?)

And to reprint the data from my other post:

 

Max speed: 350 mph at sea level, crusing speed 311 mph; 465 mph w/ MW-50 at 29,860 ft
Initial climb: 3445 ft/min (no mention of MW-50)
Service ceiling: 48,556 ft
Normal range: 750 miles
Max range w/ drop tanks: 1250 miles

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[Dune]

From The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes.
Numbers for the Fw 190D-9. Article by Robert Grinsell.

Take-off Power: 1776hp
Max: 1600hp @ 18,045ft

Speed at 9,480lb loaded weight and clean w/ MW 50 boost

Sea Level: 357mph
10,830ft: 397mph
21,650ft: 426mph
32,810ft: 397mph

Numbers for the Ta 152H-1.
Take-off power: 1750hp@3250rpm or 2050hp w/ MW50

Climb & Combat Power: 1580hp @ 3000
Max Power: 1320hp@32810ft or 1740hp w/ GM 1 boost

Max Speed

Sea Level: 332mph or 350mph w/ MW 50
29,860ft: 465mph w/ MW50
41,010ft: 472 w/ GM 1


And just give counter-point for the numbers. The P-51D. Article also Robert Grinsell.

Power

Take-Off: 1490hp
8500 (Low Blower): 1590hp
21,400ft (High Blower): 1370hp
23,400ft (High Blower): 1065hp

Speed (clean)

5000ft: 395mph
15,000ft: 413mph
25,000ft: 437mph
30,000ft: 433mph



------------------
Col Dune
C.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Ripsnort]

Hehe, so what we have here is several varying numbers from a broad range of references.  Glad that Pyro takes a nominal figure from many sources and models it!  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Was there wind involved?  Were you flying into the wind?  Offline default is 'no wind'?  (Jst questions, I have done no testing myself)

Nah.. I used 127 up raising wind to get up to 42000ft and then zeroed it.
In first testing, where I became suspicious,was when I climbed up to 34,000ft without wind helping up.. (I was chatting in IRC, so time to climb didnt matter  )

ripsnort,

I got to begin releasing my own references.. just to have that "one poorest" source  
(be 'fraid of me you spit XIV fans)

[Vermillion]

Why, do you guys keep posting "Max speed should be X at XX thousand feet, and Y at SL!!!" from some coffee table reference book??

When I have repeatedly posted original factory speed vs altitude charts for the Ta-152H, over and over and over again.

Primary data is 10,000 times better than secondary source data.

FYI I'm not arguing that the modeling is right OR wrong. Just use the best data possible when comparing to in game performance.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Creamo]

I trust HTC to make a good judgment call on the speeds with various collected data.

Not that the LW PR Dept. wanting everything changed for their advantage isn't a reliable source..heh. I don't think I'm alone in noticing the obvious constant complaints no matter how trivial for the LW iron. Kinda makes you discount the sources after hearing it time and time and time again.

I don't know how fast the 152 should go, all I know is its so whoopee fast now, any faster it's going to be hard to hit the B17's.

I had no problem tearing bombers apart last night with no damage to that wonderful plane.

[Kratzer]

I would ask that you all stop posting these 'numbers' and start making wild accusations about how you want it to be.  You aren't going to get anything accomplished with this 'research' tripe.

amateurs.

[LJK Raubvogel]

LOL   C'mon Kratzer, everyone knows that there's only 3 or 4 people in the whole world who know anything about WW2 aircraft, and they all frequent this message board.

[Cobra]

Kurt Tank wore womens' clothes!

THAT is why the TA-152 is slower.  His skirt caused parasitic drag.  Sheesh the answer is staring us in the face!

Cobra

[flakbait]

Test conditions:
Aircraft took off on drop tank for flight to altitude. Tank released at target alt and waited for aircraft to stop accelerating. In both instances this happened at 425 mph exactly. Times are the amount of time it took the aircraft to accelerate to that point from a speed of 425 mph.

Results for 28,640 ft:
425 mph: hit WEP and started stopwatch
437.5 mph: 1 min 18 sec
446 mph: 4 min 48 sec
450: 6 min 32 sec

Results for 29,860 ft:
425 mph: hit WEP and started stopwatch
437.5 mph: 1 min 6 sec
446 mph: 4 min 30 sec
450 mph: 5 min 22 sec

Both times the aircraft stopped accelerating at 450 mph exactly. Clock ran until WEP cut out, which happened after 10 min and 7 sec in both trials. Figure of 437.5 mph was attained by watching the distance between the 425 mph marker and the 450 mph marker. When TAS needle reached half-way between those points, speed was 437.5 mph.

Conclusion: aircraft at least 15 mph too slow. Possible acceleration problem.

Climbrate test conditions:
Test started at 500 ft and continued to 4,500 feet.

Mil power (no WEP): 2,100 ft/min
WEP: 3,250 ft/min

Conclusion: 300 hp difference in power generated a 1,150 ft/min difference in climb rate at 10,742 lbs (loaded weight).


-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[wulfie]

Dune,

The Fw 190D-9 ratings you list are ratings without any boost at all (i.e. no MW-50).

Just a FYI.

Mike (wulfie)