Author Topic: F3 view  (Read 2800 times)

Offline Vudak

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2009, 12:46:26 AM »
LOLOL You guys want to severely limit the vision of multi-place aircraft, but no one making this argument has any real concept of what can be seen from the real thing. No one understands that multiple sets of eyes are scanning the sky at the same moment.

Therefore, since you have no experience in these types of aircraft. Your reference is solely that of the game, right? You have no point of reference, no hands on.

How do you code the view from every crew station at the same time?

Answer: You can't.

Ever take a ride in a B-25? Virtually every angle is covered by at least one crew station. Every crew member can report what he sees, all at the same time. You can't readily code that any other way but as it is currently done. The closest you could get is to severely limit zoom out, leaving the aircraft itself as an obstacle to vision, and that still limits you to one set of eyes from one position at any given time. Inasmuch as the combined crew can see just about every angle and all at the same time, F3 is not an unreasonable replication of that.


My regards,

Widewing

Ok, fair enough.  But what about planes like the A20?  I can understand being able to scan most of the sky, but what of (nearly) directly below the plane?  I've never been in one, so I don't know. 

It doesn't really matter to me one way or another (I don't have a button mapped for F3, so I don't have the time to use it in fights, anyway), but it seems like there are a few aircraft that possibly have views they really wouldn't.

Anyway, Shreck, you can make people look silly because you've put your share of effort into this game.  With or without F3, you'd still be able to do alright.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline R 105

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2009, 02:15:54 AM »
I don't know the answer for F-3 mode for bombers. I don't under stand why fighters have F-3 mode in the DA. You get people using F-3 to make fantastic deflection shots they could never make in the MA. If you confront them about using F-3 they all plead Innocent. This is one reason I don't use the DA for practice much. As a Gv guy I do not like F-3 mode for the low planes bombing us. I think maybe the way to fix the Stuka Lancaster's is to have the wings remodeled to the real planes so when they start dive bombing in a 48000 lbs plane the wings brake off as in real life End of problem.

Offline Widewing

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2009, 12:26:44 PM »
Ok, fair enough.  But what about planes like the A20?  I can understand being able to scan most of the sky, but what of (nearly) directly below the plane?  I've never been in one, so I don't know. 

It doesn't really matter to me one way or another (I don't have a button mapped for F3, so I don't have the time to use it in fights, anyway), but it seems like there are a few aircraft that possibly have views they really wouldn't.

Anyway, Shreck, you can make people look silly because you've put your share of effort into this game.  With or without F3, you'd still be able to do alright.

The A-20 had a ventral gun station (behind and below the turret) not modeled by HTC (they didn't have any photos at the time, but do now). This was a door that opened and the gunner could see over vertical and horizontal arcs of about 120 degrees. There are also small oval windows on either side of the gunner's position allowing for visibility to the sides.

See the photos below.






My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 12:38:48 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2009, 12:37:32 PM »
True enough I guess, still it would be a plus to make fwd firing guns operable ONLY from the pilots seat!


That is something we agree on!


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Vudak

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2009, 12:39:20 PM »
Alright, cool, that works for me then :aok
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2009, 02:09:04 PM »
Quote
True enough I guess, still it would be a plus to make fwd firing guns operable ONLY from the pilots seat!

They already are. You cant fire a B-26s nose MGs from a gunners seat.
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Offline Beefcake

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2009, 02:56:34 PM »
Um when you say "making forward firing guns only fire-able by the pilot" what are you referring too? Do you mean the fixed guns or the turrets? Because the fixed guns are already controlled by the pilot, but the turrets aren't and shouldn't be as they're operated by another crew member.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2009, 03:07:39 PM »
I think what hes talking about is certain attack planes, I think the IL2 can, are able to shoot their main guns while in F3. Doing this accuratly is about as easy as shooting rearward from an AR-234. Its possible to do but compared to the accuracy of shooting with sights its a joke and 1/2. What possible advantage could this give compared to the loss of accuracy? Most of all when jumping to & from F3 to pilot is so easy.

I have it programmed on my X-52 throttle  and can switch in an instant. I fooled around with this once in offline mode, and with dive bombing from F3. Both aint worth a darn and cant compare to sitting in a pilots position looking thru a sight.
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Offline Beefcake

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2009, 03:13:05 PM »
Ok I understand now, and yeah it makes on real sense. If you can reliably hit things in F3 view then you are a rare pilot.
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Offline shreck

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2009, 07:25:41 PM »
I think what hes talking about is certain attack planes, I think the IL2 can, are able to shoot their main guns while in F3. Doing this accuratly is about as easy as shooting rearward from an AR-234. Its possible to do but compared to the accuracy of shooting with sights its a joke and 1/2. What possible advantage could this give compared to the loss of accuracy? Most of all when jumping to & from F3 to pilot is so easy.

I have it programmed on my X-52 throttle  and can switch in an instant. I fooled around with this once in offline mode, and with dive bombing from F3. Both aint worth a darn and cant compare to sitting in a pilots position looking thru a sight.

Actually I've found, after a couple hops shooting from F3 view is extremely easy, and quite superior than in the seat!!!
Your ability to set-up and anticipate the snap shot is much improved over the same opportunity in the seat!
If you have problems shooting from F3, I don't believe you!!  you're hiding something :aok :aok

Offline Beefcake

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2009, 07:39:18 PM »
Actually I've found, after a couple hops shooting from F3 view is extremely easy, and quite superior than in the seat!!!
Your ability to set-up and anticipate the snap shot is much improved over the same opportunity in the seat!
If you have problems shooting from F3, I don't believe you!!  you're hiding something :aok :aok

Now I know you're just trolling. Gunning in F3 is very hard because you have no reference points. You have to move your camera around the fusage to see in front of you, otherwise you're just seeing the tail of your aircraft and it obstructs your view. 

Also isn't odd that I just looked up score for tour 114 and you have no kills while flying a bomber...how odd. And your Tour 115 score also shows no kills in a bomber either....hrm. (this is unless I typed in the wrong handle in which case point me in the right direction and I'll stand corrected.)
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2009, 07:46:51 PM »


Also isn't odd that I just looked up score for tour 114 and you have no kills while flying a bomber...how odd. And your Tour 115 score also shows no kills in a bomber either....hrm. (this is unless I typed in the wrong handle in which case point me in the right direction and I'll stand corrected.)

I believe the way bombers are scored is that it doesn't record kills made by the pilot using the fixed guns. 

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Offline Lusche

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2009, 07:54:04 PM »
I believe the way bombers are scored is that it doesn't record kills made by the pilot using the fixed guns. 

They are recorded. Fly a Il-2 in bomber mode and kill some planes and you will see. No difference between fixed guns and turret guns.

BTW, the stats page does always record all kills, regardless of which scoring category the pilot had selected.
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Offline RipChord929

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2009, 08:30:56 PM »
A20, (in bomber mode) doesn't record kills for fixed nose guns... Unless they've changed something again...
Didn't know that they did record in IL2.... Huh, thats hardly fair!!!   Anyone know why?

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Offline Lusche

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Re: F3 view
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2009, 08:43:16 PM »
A20, (in bomber mode) doesn't record kills for fixed nose guns... Unless they've changed something again...

On stats page, all kills always count. The mode doesn't matter. For example kills of GVs in fighter mode do appear there too.
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