Refueling Location changes

[A8HatTrick]

Go back to what grandma used to say is if you have nothing nice to say; don't say it at all. 
Since when discussing different ideas retarded?  Or are you so miserably unoriginal and boring that you have to laugh at others to get off?  Go home little man.

to be honest, what you are asking, is for the game to move closer to "Arcade".

Considering the state of PC based Flight Sims, we are happy that someone out there still wants to swallow the small profit margins and put out a product, which as a "Simulation" appeals to the kind of player who strives for as much accuracy to real life that is possible on a curve. Being that a curve eventually has a point where it becomes so realistic it is unplayable.  Think of Falcon 4.0 and push it another 5% towards Realism... heck, its why the genre died, there just was not enough people who wanted that steep of a curve.

Most people here are fine with the curve, and in some cases, wouldnt mind a touch more realism.

You had an honest point, you just neglected to realize it represents a much larger issue in the Simulation Gaming Community. Everyone here has deemed you a Console gamer who wants to kill our favorite genre... and they are pulling out the flame throwers.

Nothing personal im sure.

[A8Jaraxl]

As far as reality, planes are never refueled and armed at the same time.

They are however armed (cannons) and refueled prior to their first flight in the same place the bird has been sitting all night/day on the "Line". Explosive ordinance (bombs and rockets) are generally done away from the plane parking area do to the obvious safety concerns if a bomb or rocket where to explode. This is how we did it in the Corps. From the pictures and history we learned while working on the birds, this has not changed much since WW2.

All our birds where parked in 2 inward facing rows. When a sortie would go out that required any live ordinance we would first have the bird fueled. Then ordinance would load the cannon rounds on the line. At this point the Pilot would taxi to the "hot" pad and get his explosive ordinance loaded (our ord guys would meet him out there).

If a pilot landed needing rearm and refueled they would go to the refuel pad (stopping at the water pad along they way, Harriers spray water into the engine for cooling when at full throttle and limit switches turned off during hover or FMP) Once they have their fuel they will go to the "hot" pad and rearm. All refueling came from fuel trucks rather then any fuel blatters/storage area's.

All ordinance was brought in on the Ord truck and never stored close to the hangers or on the line. This was a lesson learned (as it was told to us) from Pearl.

Just my experience with how Ord/Fuel works at an airstation.

BTW, our refuel pad was at the end of OUR line, not the runway. Each squadron shared a pad, there where 8 squadrons on our Base with a total of 10 pads (c130 squadrons where set up differently) So refuel pads extended the length of the Hanger side of the 2 main runways. There where 3 active pads for loading ordinance and other reserved area's for war time conditions.

[Shifty]

  Lets get rid of the rearm pad totally. You want realism make it so you have to taxi back into or near the Hanger to reload. OOps I forgot this a game not a simulation sorry Hitech. 

There's nothing relistic about arming or refueling in or near a hanger. That's not what they're for. The place where the rearm pads are now are about as realisric as it gets for hot fueling and arming. This is always done away from structures and main aircraft parking so if there is an accident the damage is contained and doesn't threaten parked aircraft, structures, or people not involved in the process.

[Nutzoid]

That joke only works when it really is a moot point.  This one isn't... I mean, what exactly is the sense in putting a rearm pad in the middle of a patch of concrete where planes land?  Can you imagine that in any conceivable real airfield?  And do the bombers get anything out of this, or even heavy fighters?   The only way this one makes sense is in the mind of a (with all due respect) gamer with no sense of the reality of flying planes.  A few of this kind of idea would quickly make AH into something like Fighter Ace.

Hummmmm.......well OK. but what sense does it make to HAVE to land on concrete in order not to get a ditch or land kills? If you make it to a friendly airfield and land, anywhere within the confines of that airfield you should be able to successfully land, kills or not. Speaking of course, with a sense to realism.

Not trying to speak for the OP, but maybe he meant in the middle of the airfield to one side of the runway?

[100hooch]

Go back to what grandma used to say is if you have nothing nice to say; don't say it at all. 

 

[moot]

Hummmmm.......well OK. but what sense does it make to HAVE to land on concrete in order not to get a ditch or land kills? If you make it to a friendly airfield and land, anywhere within the confines of that airfield you should be able to successfully land, kills or not. Speaking of course, with a sense to realism.

Not trying to speak for the OP, but maybe he meant in the middle of the airfield to one side of the runway?

  I don't think so.  Not in the current layout.  You don't put trees at the ends of runways... But somehow you put equally dangerous (more massive and flammable to boot) obstacles right in the middle of where planes are at their least maneuverable and have the least visibility? 
I could see a hotpad off on one of the taxi ways on "small" airfields, but nowhere near the middle of any of the X-layout multi runway fields.

[Crash Orange]

As far as reality, planes are never refueled and armed at the same time.

I'm just speculating, but I'd guess that rule might have been set aside when there were enemy bombers 15 minutes out and they were refueling/rearming planes from the CAP, especially on CVs - the imperative would be to get it all done and the equipment secured as fast as humanly possible. We haven't really had any situations like that since WW2; when was the last time an American airfield or CV anywhere in the world was bombed?

I also wonder what the arrangements would have been like on the unfinished fields that were the rule in forward areas in the Solomans and New Guinea, or at the more primitive satellite fields used by Fighter Command in the BoB or the Luftwaffe in the USSR - especially in the early days in the SoPac where it was all they could do to fill the craters in the runway from the last air raid or bombardment. I know at one point the fueling equipment at Cactus consisted of hand pumps and 55-gallon drums, presumably carted around in a jeep or something. I'm sure they must have had some interesting improvised ord carts as well.

In any case, a 30-second pit stop is already a bit much, especially since most of the time the only reason to do it is to get your name in lights and rack up your score. (As for rearming at fields with ords or hangers down, how are they supposed to land and rearm planes if they can't arm or fly the planes already on the ground? If the ords are down, they ought to be down.)

[-aper-]

we need a new dot command: "whistle for the refueler truck"

[CAP1]

we need a new dot command: "whistle for the refueler truck"

now THAT"S some funny stuff!!

[SEraider]

to be honest, what you are asking, is for the game to move closer to "Arcade".

Considering the state of PC based Flight Sims, we are happy that someone out there still wants to swallow the small profit margins and put out a product, which as a "Simulation" appeals to the kind of player who strives for as much accuracy to real life that is possible on a curve. Being that a curve eventually has a point where it becomes so realistic it is unplayable.  Think of Falcon 4.0 and push it another 5% towards Realism... heck, its why the genre died, there just was not enough people who wanted that steep of a curve.

Most people here are fine with the curve, and in some cases, wouldnt mind a touch more realism.

You had an honest point, you just neglected to realize it represents a much larger issue in the Simulation Gaming Community. Everyone here has deemed you a Console gamer who wants to kill our favorite genre... and they are pulling out the flame throwers.

Nothing personal im sure.

I hear what your saying about the realism, but as another pointed out; there was never a rearming pad at the end of the runway in reality. And if we want more realism, let's just turn friendly collisions on and make us taxi for our turn during takeoff.

I mean we cant have it both ways but I do see a very nice convenience of "arcade" like features  and excellent realism as well.  But I am not trying to kill peoples game.  But I understand your point of of the perception of "arcade". Then again, CV rearming fits the arcade theory but that's in the game already so I am not responsible for that.

[SEraider]

Not trying to speak for the OP, but maybe he meant in the middle of the airfield to one side of the runway?

No, I meant middle of the field originally just as an exploritory idea.  I was just brainstorming and wanted other input.  But your idea is actually better on the side of runway. 

[usvi]

we need a new dot command: "whistle for the refueler truck"

 

[A8HatTrick]

As far as reality, planes are never refueled and armed at the same time.

Hot Pits !

[A8Jaraxl]

Hot Pits !

Even in Hot Pits, Ord was never loaded at the same time as fuel. First Fuel would be taken on, then the truck moved and Ord would be put on, or the other way around. While not everything was done to SOP in war time, understand that there where times when bombs would explode during loading from being dropped or what not. Why would you take the chance to take out your pilot, plane, crew AND your fuel?

As planes never took off Solo in combat situations crews would be fueling and loading ord on differnet planes at different times. But as far as we where taught and from what I have seen in modern day combat sorties even on the LHD, Fuel and Ord was never done at the same time, even if it was done in the same place. It was just a mixture of 2 possibly dangerous actions together.

So if you want to "think" reality, when you hit the rearm pad, just think that the frist 15sec they are loading Fuel and the last 15sec they are loading ord...there done


Also on sotries to take down bombers normally it was just cannon rounds and fuel neither of which take very long, but due to the location of both the fuel and ammo loading area's on most aircraft they still where done seperatly. But pretty much back to back. or they would load the rounds in one wing while the fuel truch was parked and fueling from the other side.

[Oleg]

I hear what your saying about the realism, but as another pointed out; there was never a rearming pad at the end of the runway in reality. And if we want more realism, let's just turn friendly collisions on and make us taxi for our turn during takeoff.

Its always fun to see ppl asking for something arcadish under the pretext that game isnt 100% realistic anyway.