Nakajima Ki-84-I Hayate

[juzz]

What are the chances that it will be in 1.07?

Think N1K2-J with less turn, and more speed.  

[Torgo]

Considering we have no idea at all of 1.07 aircraft..

I'd say the Ki-84 is as much of a mortal lock for the next version as any aircraft could possibly be.

[whels1]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
What are the chances that it will be in 1.07?

Think N1K2-J with less turn, and more speed.  

try ki84 faster then niki low and outturns
it by far.

u think  a niki is a bad thing to see low in MA, u wouldnt want to find a ki84.

whels

[-ammo-]

whels, I saw where you stated that ealier also that the frank will outurn the george.

Please provide a reference, or someone else chime in. I was always under the understanding that the george was a better turner. I also thought that the frank has a terrible stall, that can result in a sp[in that was very difficult to recover from. Is this true?

ammo

[GRUNHERZ]

Ki84 is much lighter than niki and has nearly same wingarea, same power, and a simmilar automatic flap system, acually the Ki84s system might even be better since it adds a good deal more lift. Its also faster and beter climber. Although certainly not what the JAAF had available in ww2 a postwar test of a US refurbuished Ki84 showed it to be slightly faster than P51D and P47 under 20k, and better climber than P51H and P47N and of course far more manuverable. Actually Ki84 could be a nightmare in MA if one of the 4 cannon versions was made specially the 2x20mm + 2x30mm IIRC, but with normal set of 2x12.7mm + 2x20mm it may not be so bad, certainly no niki 600-800 yard spray kills. Didnt brand "W" have one of these, how did it all work out there?

[brady]

Frank Me..

   

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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 03-11-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Don't be so sure Grunherz, the HO-5 cannon mounted in the Ki84, and other late war JAAF fighters, is the one 20mm cannon of the war that could potentially be as deadly or more deadly than the turbolaser hispano (for those sure to ask.... yes I've been wearing alot of leather lately, and its showing  ).

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[juzz]

Empty weight
N1K2-J: 5858lbs
Ki-84-Ia: 5864lbs

Loaded weight
N1K2-J: 8818lbs
Ki-84-Ia: 7955lbs(possibly around 7500lbs?)

Wing area
N1K2-J: 252.95ft^2
Ki-84-Ia: 226.04ft^2

While it is much lighter in a fully loaded configuration, due to the similarity of their empty weights I doubt you would see it regularly out-turning the N1K2-J in AH, unless it's flaps are indeed much more effective.

-ammo-; I understand that the Frank has bad stall behaviour in WarBirds, but in real life it seems it was not that way at all.

 

The stalling characteristics of the Hayate proved to be quite normal and stall warning occurred early enough to prevent a stall developing if recovery procedure was initiated promptly. In clean condition with power off at 8,000 ft (2440 m) the stall warning consisted of shudder and elevator buffet at 108 mph (174 km/h) IAS. The actual stall, which came at 102 mph ( 164 km/h), proved clean and the Hayate was stable with little tendency to drop off on a wing. and the ailerons and rudder remaining effective well below stalling speed. With the wheels and flaps down and the oil cooler shutters open, but the cowl flaps and canopy closed, the stall warning--occasionally accompanied by severe canopy buffet came at 92 mph ( 148 km/h) IAS and the actual stall occurred at 90 mph (145 km/h) with the nose dropping straight through. Again, there was no indication of instability.

With power on, undercarriage down and full flap, the Hayate did not stall. The rudder became inadequate below 81 mph(130 km/h) IAS and at this speed heading could be maintained
by use of full right rudder and right aileron. The ailerons became inadequate for maintaining altitude below 74 mph (119 km/h). the Hayate yawing left at this speed and then rolling with any further decrease in speed, but control was readily recovered by an increase in airspeed and a slight decrease in power.

PS: Vermillion, I bet the Ho-5 will end up being like a Mauser with better ROF in AH... but their bloody well better be 4 of them(C-Hog precedent)!!!

[fscott]

The Ki84 does not outturn the N1K2-J period. The Ki84 has a higher wing loading, but not by much. I have the wing loading numbers from Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War, pretty much an icon of reference material for all Jap planes and prototypes. I'll get those nmebrs soon.

fscott

[Nath-BDP]

 

The stalling characteristics of the Hayate proved to be quite normal and stall warning occurred early enough to prevent a stall developing if recovery procedure was initiated promptly. In clean condition with power off at 8,000 ft (2440 m) the stall warning consisted of shudder and elevator buffet at 108 mph (174 km/h) IAS. The actual stall, which came at 102 mph ( 164 km/h), proved clean and the Hayate was stable with little tendency to drop off on a wing. and the ailerons and rudder remaining effective well below stalling speed. With the wheels and flaps down and the oil cooler shutters open, but the cowl flaps and canopy closed, the stall warning--occasionally accompanied by severe canopy buffet came at 92 mph ( 148 km/h) IAS and the actual stall occurred at 90 mph (145 km/h) with the nose dropping straight through. Again, there was no indication of instability.
With power on, undercarriage down and full flap, the Hayate did not stall. The rudder became inadequate below 81 mph(130 km/h) IAS and at this speed heading could be maintained
by use of full right rudder and right aileron. The ailerons became inadequate for maintaining altitude below 74 mph (119 km/h). the Hayate yawing left at this speed and then rolling with any further decrease in speed, but control was readily recovered by an increase in airspeed and a slight decrease in power.

Yes, thank you, that information was provided by me from this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001556.html

Be sure to post the link next time please, I don't like people taking credit for my work.  

[juzz]

Oops, sorry 'bout that.

[Thog]

Ki-84 in WB was filled a similar ecological nich as the Chog. In short, it was a frigging menance. A mediocre pilot could give you a hard time, and an Ace was lethal.

Not unbeatable though. Compresses at high speed, can be beaten in a stallfight by some others. Relatively fragile. But the sweet-spot on this plane is huge, and within that envelope it'll cause grief. Fast, agile, well armed, nifty little red dots on the wings, some Diamond Sake just to the left of the pilots seat, and drop a notch of flaps (it had turnflaps) and it becomes a semi-decent stallfighter. I could kill it at those speeds in a 110, but then I actually did ok stallfighting in the 110.

My highest streak was 94, in a Ki-84.

Thog

[oboe]

Must have this plane.  It just isn't a late-war WWII air combat sim without it, for those who admire Japanese a/c.

It should outclimb the Niki by about 500 fpm as well, which should come in handy.

Its faster and a better climber than the Niki, though slightly inferior in turn and firepower.  It should have a better view out the cockpit also.

[Spritle]

In regards to NIK vs. Frank like Vermillion said the Ho-5 is a good weapon.  It has a very high rate of fire unlike the NIK.  I'm not sure if the Frank had semi automatic flaps but it did have Fowler type flaps that are much more effective than simple type flaps.  Not sure which type the NIK had as I don't have any of my references with me.  

Also if you want a good perspective on How Saburo Saki liked the N1K read this.

Look under the sub-heading IJN Leadership. It's down towards the middle of the article. http://www.danford.net/sakai.htm  

Spritle