Weird stuff rom the A6m5

[shreck]

A squadie and I were having a running fight with a gaggle of A6ms and ki84s. We were heading east and looping over the top of each other trying to keep our 6s clear, this went on for easy 20 minutes and I noticed the ki84s falling behind but the zeros were maintaning contact "easily" it seemed and catching us in the climb  We were workin from 18-23K as we dove in "at least for me" I was carefull to maintain 350 mph as I would climb back out after clearing squadies 6! Before to long the ki84s fell back completely out of the fight but the zeros were easily staying 600-800 off of us  Each time one of us went over the top, easily zooming to 20+k a zero was right there as we cleared each other the zeros would lag roll or hard break then adjust and stay 600-800 off, this all goin on for 20 minutes easy.
Is there an explanation for this?    anything?

Oh BTW  we were in 38L at that alt <--- very perplexed

If this was just a couple minutes of fight I could understand but at over 20 minutes the zeros should have been floundering  IMO!

[vonKrimm]

My suggestion would be that you and some of the other Jokers (your squad, iirc; apology if it ain't) go to the DA/SEA and attempt to replicate what you are reporting.  Film it,review it, compare speed & climb figures ya'll are getting against the published AH data (and the RW stuff if you have the time) for those a/c; if discrepancies are found, send it to Pyro.  He fixed the P51B because someone (Steve? Swoop? I forget whom) found discrepancies between what is should perform and what is was performing.

[Stoney]

I'd say the only way to know Shreck would be if you have film.

[shreck]

I'd say the only way to know Shreck would be if you have film.

cc! Not complaining just found it odd that the kis would fall behind and not the zeros! Figured it would be the other way around is all!!
I don't film in sea, it screws with my frame rate for some reason!   

[Strip]

My suggestion would be that you and some of the other Jokers (your squad, iirc; apology if it ain't) go to the DA/SEA and attempt to replicate what you are reporting.  Film it,review it, compare speed & climb figures ya'll are getting against the published AH data (and the RW stuff if you have the time) for those a/c; if discrepancies are found, send it to Pyro.  He fixed the P51B because someone (Steve? Swoop? I forget whom) found discrepancies between what is should perform and what is was performing.

It was Strip....  

FYI...All it took was a simple 10 minute test for them to address the problem. Show what the performance should be and what the actual numbers are. I used AHWiki data and replicated the original test as best I could. I have found 3-4 bugs that were addressed with a simple post and fixed.

Its not unheard of.

<S> Strip

[Strip]

I ran a quick climb test (more like an observation really) and found the A65B is mildy under performing when compared to AHWiki. Its around 10% in some areas...

Also ran a test with the Ki-84-La and found its high altitude performance is poor compared to AHWiki charts. Its nearly 20% off on the climb rate at 25,000 feet so I will definitely look into this.

P-38L has no weight listed so I cant compare the climb chart with actual performance.

[mbailey]

Shreck,

I believe a couple of my squadies were in the KI 84s ( SW of A94 ), and i agree with you, we were not catching you, but another squad ( which appeared to have a little alt on you ) did appear to be catching you, i believe they were the zekes.

Hats off to you and your squadie, you gents played that extremely well, hope you made it home safe <S>

 Mbailey
The Blind Bats

[shreck]

Shreck,

I believe a couple of my squadies were in the KI 84s ( SW of A94 ), and i agree with you, we were not catching you, but another squad ( which appeared to have a little alt on you ) did appear to be catching you, i believe they were the zekes.

Hats off to you and your squadie, you gents played that extremely well, hope you made it home safe <S>

 Mbailey
The Blind Bats

TY sir,  <S>

We were tryin 
Imagine my initial excitement to be 20K in a Lightning with sooooo many jap planes    "shooting gallery"
Then my bewilderment as we just could not get any E advantage on the zekes. All in all was fun stuff

For the short term at least I will be killing "with extreme prejudice" every zeke I come across 

[Saxman]

I have found 3-4 bugs that were addressed with a simple post and fixed.

Its not unheard of.

You must have SOME secret. I've been trying to get them to fix the microscopic gunsights on the F4Us since they were updated.

[TracerX]

That was us (USMC/71sqn) in the A6M's.  I was calling all the squad in at altitude and vectoring what ever help I could find to get you guys to slow down and make a mistake so we could catch you finally.  It was a loooong chase (the longest I have ever engaged in) and you were able to stay just out of our reach.  Excellent flying by the way, using your aircraft to its strengths. 

I have a completely opposite view of the engagement as you demonstrated the absolute advantage the P-38 has over very large numbers of Japanese airplanes.  We only maintained contact because you were turning much more than we were.  You could have easily left the engagement from my point of view, but you kept circling back to engage the KI-84's and we simply shadowed along with a little bit of altitude being careful not to spend any altitude until we were in a position to actually close the gap.  I remember making the comment, "they might as well be in jets."  We had to coninually fight the desire to dive in on you because you would just nose down a little and pick up enough speed to stay out of reach.  I got within 800 a few times, but couldn't get any closer until we got close to your fields.  After the KI-84's bugged out, and we got close to your base, we finally got a chance to mix it up.  I took some fuel hits, and then ran out of fuel, ditching in the ocean, and I think a couple of my squaddies were able to finally knock down a few of your guys with the loss of a few of ours as well.  It was a fun fight, and your guys did a fantastic job in the P-38's.  <S>

 

[shreck]

That was us (USMC/71sqn) in the A6M's.  I was calling all the squad in at altitude and vectoring what ever help I could find to get you guys to slow down and make a mistake so we could catch you finally.  It was a loooong chase (the longest I have ever engaged in) and you were able to stay just out of our reach.  Excellent flying by the way, using your aircraft to its strengths. 

I have a completely opposite view of the engagement as you demonstrated the absolute advantage the P-38 has over very large numbers of Japanese airplanes.  We only maintained contact because you were turning much more than we were.  You could have easily left the engagement from my point of view, but you kept circling back to engage the KI-84's and we simply shadowed along with a little bit of altitude being careful not to spend any altitude until we were in a position to actually close the gap.  I remember making the comment, "they might as well be in jets."  We had to coninually fight the desire to dive in on you because you would just nose down a little and pick up enough speed to stay out of reach.  I got within 800 a few times, but couldn't get any closer until we got close to your fields.  After the KI-84's bugged out, and we got close to your base, we finally got a chance to mix it up.  I took some fuel hits, and then ran out of fuel, ditching in the ocean, and I think a couple of my squaddies were able to finally knock down a few of your guys with the loss of a few of ours as well.  It was a fun fight, and your guys did a fantastic job in the P-38's.  <S>

 

Well then, a BIG  <S>  You exhibited excellent discipline!! If you had not, it might have been a short day for your group!   Definitely was fun.  It seems we all learned just a bit, which is a great thing!

[Rash]

Kept me on my toes for a while, an A6 finally knock one of my engines out at the end, and had to rtb.  <S>