Author Topic: Stop dropping FHs....  (Read 21828 times)

Offline TwinEng

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2009, 09:01:40 PM »
Whatever happened to LTARsoup, anyway?

He was a great player, but I have not seen him online for a very long time now.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2009, 09:07:45 PM »


I know for a fact that DOGFITE has never once deliberately attacked a base with his bombers for the reason of ending a furball.  These personal attacks on him are thus most unfair and unwarranted.

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You might want to check your facts before you start spouting 'facts'.  DOGFITE was the one that kept on taking down the fighter hangers at A89 because he was upset that we were fighting and not helping him take some base.  In his own words were to the affect that he was doing it to stop our 'score whoring' and help him take bases.  He's a tool, pure and simple and that is a fact.

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Offline Soulyss

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2009, 09:14:38 PM »
So you are thus implying that DOGFITE is a turd??

How utterly juvenile and immature of you to do that.  If DOGFITE is a turd, then what does that make his Squadmates???

Why don't you tell us what you think of those who fly with DOGFITE??


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I can appreciate jumping to the aide of a friend, which is precisely what I'm doing here.  Mir did not mention DOGFITE's squad at all, he merely stated one example of one player that was behaving in a way he did not agree with.  Every squad is entitled to their own turds as you call them.  For instance we in the 80th have Mensa.
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Offline Vudak

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2009, 09:35:15 PM »
Nah, that's just beyond the scope of this discussion - you're talking about which FHs to bomb, not whether to bomb them at all, or when. And it depends on the situation. If a base is already isolated by geography it's best to hammer it directly, and if it has several large and medium fields nearby, isolating it is doomed to failure.

See Saxman's post, he covered this...

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Not true. The closer base always has the advantage, because as you mention below, time is everything; if you have time, you have alt. A defender can up, HO one attacker, die, and be up again inside 20 seconds; even if he only kills one attacker every 3-4 times he ups, he's doing more damage than a pilot who kills 2-3 enemies but is out of the fight for 10+ minutes when he dies. If the defenders manage to gain a numerical edge it's very difficult to lose it, beause at any given time half or more of the attackers are in transit. If the hangers are flat and the attackers have a CV a mile offshore, the reverse is true - the attackers can both gang up on defenders and climb at their leisure when the defenders are dead.


The closer base only has the advantage if they can take off and fight, and if they have to quickly get wheels up and deal with vulchers, they aren't going to be effective.  If they can take off in an La-7, K4, Spit 16, or other fast-climbing, fast-accelerating aircraft from a further base, they can very quickly arrive at an alt and speed which will allow them to get your goon (unless the base is already taken before they can arrive... Which requires the town down).  You are not stopping them if they know what they are doing. 

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True, to some degree, but it's easier and just as effective (see above) to take out the hangars. Give me two other good buff pilots and a formation of Lancs and we can flatten a small base in one run and the town in a second (one if the angle permits one run for both). Two or three fighters can deack a port or V-base, but not an airfield and town, and some of them are likely to be crippled or shot down in the process.


With the same two good bomber pilots you can almost wipe out the town in a few passes (the better the bomber pilot, the quicker the subsequent passes).  Bring along a heavy-cannon fighter to clean up, and time the goon to drop just as the town is cleared, and you have a fully functional field to continue operations from.

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Sometimes killing two goons is enough, if it's a long flight. But more impotant, precisely: it's all about attrition. But why does attrition work against the attacker? Because he has to spend time coming back and the defender can use that delay to his advantage. If your contention above were true, that would be an advantage, because the attacker has all that time to grab alt. But it isn't, because the defender can spend that same time shooting the remaining attackers down and then grabbing alt, or having several planers do each.


Attrition isn't just a numbers game in here.  It's also energy.  From my experience, I'd say energy is more useful.  Much more so, if you know what you're doing.  If you give people the option to up from the attacked field, they don't have energy.  If you force them to up from another, they will have that.  Combine that with the fact that the attacker (except for level bombers) must, by default, go low to carry out there attacks, and you will soon be faced with a major problem.

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I don't think anyone who's played the game more than a month would dispute that the VH is the first priority (with the possible exception of ords, if you're attacking from a CV close by). As for ack, as I said, taking down six hangers is quicker, safer, and requires fewer people. Sure, if you have 15 or 20 attackers, de-ack and vulch, but who needs 15-20 people to capture a base? And unless you've got 20 attackers capping, in which case it's a moot point, ten or twenty uppers are better for the defense than reinforcements coming in high one at a time.


Who needs 15-20 people to vulch?  On a small field you only need three to cover all options...  Deacking is also quite doable by a small group of people, working in concert.

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Your second statement does not follow from the first, because however you slice it it is necessary to take the town down and suppress the defenders to take a base, and because bombing six neatly lined-up hangars is quicker and more foolproof than hitting 20 scattered acks and quicker than bombing 12 or 18 hangars at nearby bases.


Vulching suppresses.  Destroying the FHs funnels them to new locations.  The only way this is not a problem is if you can capture the base before they arrive, but if you can already do that, why did you need to knock down the FHs?

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(It is possible to take a base by having 3 sets of buffs come in NOE and pop at the last second to flatten the town without going near the field, and having a goon follow immediately behind, but that depends absolutely on surprise and few or no defenders being up when you get there. It's also possible to take it in a GV rush without touching the field, and we do that sometimes, but if the defenders are even mildly alert it's a low-odds proposition for the same reason given above re: attrition - attackers who die take much longer to return than defenders.)


NOE missions require surprise because NOE missions, by default, surrender any chance of an energy advantage from the get-go.  If there is the slightest warning of an attack (ie, a chance for the defender to gain energy), you are done for.

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Judging by the number of players who act that way, especially in the giant endless furballs, I don't think that is any more common among those who like base-taking than anyone else.

More common or not, it's more detrimental to the base-takers' aims.  Note the giant friendly cluster around the attacker's home base when a single con shows up nearby.  Really, the quickest way to disrupt a base capture is to roll a fairly fast plane (perked spinner baits are best) near the attacker's ingress route.  "Mine mine mine!" takes over.

The bottom line is that the base captures that fail do not fail because a FH was left up, or taken down.  They fail because the guys who harp "teamwork, strategy, and tactics" rarely practice them.  If they were as into that sort of thing as they profess, they'd be near unstoppable.  There are certainly enough mega squads that have the #s to pull off a major FSO-styled attack... 
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Offline Yenny

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2009, 09:37:48 PM »
I'd drop FHs to piss people off too if I could fly a bomber and hit something xD, whew good thing I can't fly bomber or bomb anything =)
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Offline Sc00ter

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #95 on: August 10, 2009, 09:43:28 PM »

Who needs 15-20 people to vulch?  On a small field you only need three to cover all options...  Deacking is also quite doable by a small group of people, working in concert.

A small field can be deacked in 2 passes in a 190f8 if you are in concert with one's self. I do it all the time to set up a vulch. However no one likes me so usually I'm the only one doing the vulching. If you dont believe me I'll work on posting video.  :salute
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2009, 09:54:27 PM »
I can appreciate jumping to the aide of a friend, which is precisely what I'm doing here.  Mir did not mention DOGFITE's squad at all, he merely stated one example of one player that was behaving in a way he did not agree with.  Every squad is entitled to their own turds as you call them.  For instance we in the 80th have Mensa.

I called out his entire sqaud devils retards(cept Killjoy who furballs but went with his brother), but i guess i might be the turd from POTW  :D
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Offline newz

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2009, 09:58:17 PM »
I do it all the time to set up a vulch.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2009, 10:05:47 PM »
I'll join ya' in that I'm another idiot, I guess. I'm just glad that when I post a big fat B17 mission with escorts, people still say it's fun as hell. That makes my day. <S>
This i would consider fine, the thing was DOGFITE closed the field by himself while both sides were having a great furball, you have to be able to understand
Are  the Buff guys suppose to leave the CV's up also???
999000<S>

999000, as a more senior member of AH, I know you can tell the difference of a base which is just being used for furballing and which is actually in the process of being taken.
LOL...Drop the freeking FHs as often as you want guys.  As long as they're Bish and Nits. (now how about the obligatory hump my ankle retort and how I won't be playing the game in a couple months as you are superior in all that is AH because you been playing it for 25 years...ya ya ya...whine whine whine.) If HiTech didn't want them knocked down then they would not program them to be knocked down) Hump this!
Cool noob, Ive been playing less then 3 years and I have a ton to learn about ACM, if everyone knew anything about ACM we wouldnt be having this problem. Trust me its funner losing good fights then taking a base thats undefendable anyday :rock
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Offline TwinEng

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2009, 10:11:41 PM »
You might want to check your facts before you start spouting 'facts'.  DOGFITE was the one that kept on taking down the fighter hangers at A89 because he was upset that we were fighting and not helping him take some base.  In his own words were to the affect that he was doing it to stop our 'score whoring' and help him take bases.  He's a tool, pure and simple and that is a fact.

ack-ack


Well, he is a hard drinker, so it sounds like you may have been unfortunate enough to piss him off one night when he was flying drunk.

I'm confident that you and others must have baited him first with your acidic comments.   In general, he is a real class act.   

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Offline TwinEng

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2009, 10:16:50 PM »
I can appreciate jumping to the aide of a friend, which is precisely what I'm doing here.  Mir did not mention DOGFITE's squad at all, he merely stated one example of one player that was behaving in a way he did not agree with.  Every squad is entitled to their own turds as you call them.  For instance we in the 80th have Mensa.



He acted like an immature kid, using the word "turd" to describe another person in his post.

Tell me, is it part of your normal routine in your daily life to go around using the word "turd" to describe other people??   Would you ever describe a person as being a "turd" to their face?  Do you perhaps work in an office?   If so, would you ever refer to a co-worker as being a "turd".

The use of the word "turd" was totally gratuitous and juvenile on his part, and was completely unnecessary.

And don't try to twist this around as you so cleverly did in yours second to last sentence, trying to make it look like I refer to people as "turds".   It is YOUR FRIEND who likes to use that word to describe people, not me.   He is the one that you really need to have a talk to, not me.


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« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 10:26:28 PM by TwinEng »

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2009, 10:27:59 PM »

Well, he is a hard drinker, so it sounds like you may have been unfortunate enough to piss him off one night when he was flying drunk.

I'm confident that you and others must have baited him first with your acidic comments.   In general, he is a real class act.   

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He acted like an immature kid, using the word "turd" to describe another person.

Tell me, is it part of your normal routine in your daily life to go around using the word "turd" to describe other people??

The use of the word "turd" was totally gratuitous and juvenile on his part, and was completely unnecessary.

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Ive known Dogfite longer then you "turd" nugget. Hes a RETARD and is all about taking out the hangars at the big furballs, and nobody was saying crap to him at first and my proof here is, we were furballing...........BTW in my unit many people say turd many times a day so i guess all us soldiers are juvenile, just because people dont say it where you live dont assume nobody does, that is juvenile thinking
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2009, 10:31:56 PM »

The use of the word "turd" was totally gratuitous and juvenile on his part, and was completely unnecessary.

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Perhaps it was merely the most accurate adjective to describe the behavior he was witness to that would get through the BBS language filter.
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Offline TwinEng

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2009, 10:32:04 PM »
I called out his entire sqaud devils retards(cept Killjoy who furballs but went with his brother), but i guess i might be the turd from POTW  :D

So you are saying that anyone who is not a furballer is a "retard" in your opinion?

Are people here so immature that they cannot express themselves without engaging in name calling???

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Offline Yenny

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Re: Stop dropping FHs....
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2009, 10:34:52 PM »
<--- member of the Devil's Reject *V*, I just don't fly bomber. Just in the squad to hang out and chat w/ friends =)
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