HAPPY VJ DAY!!!

[sandwich]

Are you all saying Japan was willing to fight with every last man, woman and child, therefore creating the possibility of millions dead or injured on both sides of the war, and that this was the biggest reason for using the atom bomb?

yes

they would have fought to the very last man, woman and child.

all non followers would have been executed which would be comparable to nazi germany executing civilians who attemped to help the allies.

 and as stated by many people before the Japanese RACE would have been all but eliminated from the face of the earth.

without the bomb we would have annexed japan as the 51st state and probably have gone to war with the soviet union.

[Masherbrum]

yes

they would have fought to the very last man, woman and child.

all non followers would have been executed which would be comparable to nazi germany executing civilians who attemped to help the allies.

 and as stated by many people before the Japanese RACE would have been all but eliminated from the face of the earth.

without the bomb we would have annexed japan as the 51st state and probably have gone to war with the soviet union.

Wrong. Going to War with the Soviet Union?   How?  Why?  Yalta sealed the Baltic states, Northern Hokkaido Islands and Poland's fate. 

Your post is the first that I have EVER heard of the "Japanese Demographic being all but eliminated from the face of the Earth". 

Bottom line, read more please.   Don't foist off the inaccurate words of others and pass it on.   But choose appropriate books, starting with the book I mentioned in my previous post.  I read it when I was 15 (21 years ago).   

[Kermit de frog]

I agree on using the atom bomb on Japan.  The moment they said every man, woman and child would fight, they became soldiers, voluntary or not!

I say if a country is suicidal like that, then the Atom bomb and the fire bombing of the cities was legit.  Those cities were no longer filled with civilians, but with soldiers willing to fight and die for their country!

[Ack-Ack]

Are you all saying Japan was willing to fight with every last man, woman and child, therefore creating the possibility of millions dead or injured on both sides of the war, and that this was the biggest reason for using the atom bomb?

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself.  Read about the Battle for Saipan and then ask yourself if the Japanese civilians were willing to die than be captured.


ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

I agree on using the atom bomb on Japan.  The moment they said every man, woman and child would fight, they became soldiers, voluntary or not!

I say if a country is suicidal like that, then the Atom bomb and the fire bombing of the cities was legit.  Those cities were no longer filled with civilians, but with soldiers willing to fight and die for their country!

The Civilian Population was more than adequate.   But I guess cracks me up, are the one's who always scoff at "Fat Man" and Little Boy", forget about the Incendiary Raids that killed a lot more civilians than the Atom Bombs and the "fallout effects".  

It's sometimes easy to mention one side and not look at the big picture.   But the bottom line is that the Civilians were starting to "no longer buy into the propaganda of their Military Leaders".    So, the initial Invasion of Japan would have been devastating to both sides.    

[Strip]

The Civilian Population was more than adequate.   But I guess cracks me up, are the one's who always scoff at "Fat Man" and Little Boy", forget about the Incendiary Raids that killed a lot more civilians than the Atom Bombs and the "fallout effects".  

It's sometimes easy to mention one side and not look at the big picture.   But the bottom line is that the Civilians were starting to "no longer buy into the propaganda of their Military Leaders".    So, the initial Invasion of Japan would have been devastating to both sides.    

Indeed....some of the fire bombing death tolls in Germany or Japan were estimated to be way above both atomic bombs.

[Kermit de frog]

Indeed....some of the fire bombing death tolls in Germany or Japan were estimated to be way above both atomic bombs.

So, did we firebomb Japanese civilians or soldiers?

[RipChord929]

Yep, the Japanese plan was to use the civilian population, (woman children and old ppl) in massed human wave attacks, armed with "idiot sticks"... While the military forces fought in their more conventional, meat grinder style... "Idiot sticks" are what my Pop called the sharpened Bamboo Staves, that were a common weapon of last resort on Okinawa...  
On the US side, we were stockpiling TON quantities of Mustard and Phosgene gas, to be used during and after the landings... ON THE WHOLE POPULATION!!!  Mortar shells, Arty shells, Bombs, arial spraying equipment,
EVERYTHING!!!!

My pop told me about the MASSIVE celebrations on the hospital ship, after the Abomb was dropped, because all the wounded marines realized that they were going to LIVE!!!  (He was wounded at Shuri Castle, and knew firsthand what was coming).. He would have been in the first wave of LVT's for the Fourth time in the war...
He was a Gunny at the time, because of the death of his senior NCO's... He was wounded 4 times during the war, Bougainville, Saipan, twice on Oki..  He always said, "A guys luck only lasts so long!!!"  

Because of the Atom Bomb, I was BORN, and my 2 Sons, and my 2 Grandkids.. And, My sisters and Brothers, and their kids and Grandkids... Thats 3 generations, of Americans, and Japanese, that are alive, because of the 2 A bomb blasts...

RC

[Strip]

By definition.......civilians.

However, given an invasion they would have become enemy combatants or soldiers without a doubt.

The thought was that because the war industry located in these cities they became strategic targets, hence, bombable.

[Ack-Ack]

I agree on using the atom bomb on Japan.  The moment they said every man, woman and child would fight, they became soldiers, voluntary or not!

I say if a country is suicidal like that, then the Atom bomb and the fire bombing of the cities was legit.  Those cities were no longer filled with civilians, but with soldiers willing to fight and die for their country!

Tokyo was filled with civilians during the fire bombing campaign, more civilians died during that time than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.  The fire bombings weren't meant to terrorize the civilian population though, the main purpose was to wipe out Japanese war making production facilities.  A lot of the war production was done in cottage industy facilities, and a lot of these plants were dispersed in civilian populated areas of Tokyo.  The goal of the fire bombing campaign was to wipe out these cottage industries and at the same time wipe out those that work in these factories, not to terrorize the civilian population like a lot claim.


ack-ack

[stodd]

they would have fought to the very last man, woman and child.

all non followers would have been executed which would be comparable to nazi germany executing civilians who attemped to help the allies.

 and as stated by many people before the Japanese RACE would have been all but eliminated from the face of the earth.

without the bomb we would have annexed japan as the 51st state and probably have gone to war with the soviet union.

[Stalwart]

Are you all saying Japan was willing to fight with every last man, woman and child, therefore creating the possibility of millions dead or injured on both sides of the war, and that this was the biggest reason for using the atom bomb?

Kermit, That's a good question.  Please read some accounts of the battle for Saipan.  Read both US and Japanese accounts.  Then reconsider your question, and tell us what you think.  I'm sincerely interested in your opinion.

Stalwart 

[Stalwart]

I remember being outraged once, during the first Gulf War, because a war protester told me the atomic bombing of Japan was immoral and the US was an immoral country.  I knew the bombs ended the war and that this protester couldn't (or wouldn't) see that.  Later, I was talking with my boss who was a veteran of the Army Air Corps.  I told him about what the protester said, and how angry I was about it...  He was quiet for a while, and then said, "Jim, All war is immoral, but the bomb ended that war, and we got to come home."

[Kermit de frog]

Did the Japanese feel that they should defend their Island, whatever it took, no matter the cost?  Did they promise to fight on the beaches, landing grounds, fields, streets and hills?  Did they say things such as never surrendering to the enemy?

How dare the government of the Japanese say such things to endanger their people.  It was a tragedy and foredoomed to their failure.

[Ack-Ack]

Did the Japanese feel that they should defend their Island, whatever it took, no matter the cost?  Did they promise to fight on the beaches, landing grounds, fields, streets and hills?  Did they say things such as never surrendering to the enemy?

How dare the government of the Japanese say such things to endanger their people.  It was a tragedy and foredoomed to their failure.

*sigh* I guess some people like to go through life with blinders on.


ack-ack