Author Topic: Dutch Skins  (Read 6756 times)

Offline Krusty

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2010, 09:52:39 AM »
Lets see if Krusty makes another appearance into this thread. On couple other threads about the Brewster where his overmodelling and what-not comments have been refuted, he just leaves the thread without a reply. I'm beginning to think that he's just trolling.

Wow.. now who's trolling?


EDIT: Deleted. Not worth it. You don't care and pretending I'm the villain makes you feel better.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 10:30:18 AM by Krusty »

Offline Mus51

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2010, 11:48:17 PM »
Anyone started that last Dutch B25 yet? I like the idea of DutchGuy skinning Dutch planes!  :D
Regards,


DutchGuy

Offline lyric1

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2010, 12:03:30 AM »
Anyone started that last Dutch B25 yet? I like the idea of DutchGuy skinning Dutch planes!  :D
None that I know of claim it now.

Offline Mus51

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2010, 01:08:31 AM »
Rgr that lyric! I will start with it today
Regards,


DutchGuy

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2010, 08:12:27 PM »
Wow.. now who's trolling?


EDIT: Deleted. Not worth it. You don't care and pretending I'm the villain makes you feel better.

Krusty, first off all, check the date of the posts...

Second, I'm not trolling. You are basically saying that Pyro purposefully overmodelled the Brewster or that the material me and other Finns provided for Pyro were somehow specially picked to show Brewster in better light than it deserves or that we just told Pyro how to model the plane and he somehow just complied. How do you think I will react?

You keep saying that the plane is overmodelled without producing a single shread of evidence to back up your claims.

Krusty, why don't you do some testing, find some data and then if you find something that is overmodelled, start a thread about it.

 ...Or you could just stay quiet about something you really don't have any knowledge at all to comment on?
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Offline Mus51

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2010, 03:14:57 AM »
Man that B25 is taking me longer then expected, THATS A WHOLE LOT OF RIVETS!!
Regards,


DutchGuy

Offline Karnak

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2010, 12:39:57 PM »
I have no issue with the Brewster as a Finnish version.  I have major issues with it being used in Pacific theater events.  It grossly out performs the Buffaloes used in the Pacific theater and creates a situation very unfair to the Japanese side in those settings.  I have been told to stuff it, that it isn't fun for the Americans if they have grossly under performing equipment.  Oddly, these same people think it is fine and dandy to throw A6M2s vs F4U-1s or A6M5bs/Ki-61s vs F4U-1As, F6F-5s and P-38Ls.  Somehow the historical aspect only matters when it is the Japanese that are grossly out geared by the Americans.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2010, 03:42:04 PM »
Karnak: On that particular note, you and I agree.


As for Wmaker, I had a whole post typed up in response to you. Those that read my reply in the first 2-3 mnutes may have seen it. Then I thought "I'm not going to feed this troll" and deleted it.

I brought up some issues you glossed over in regards to the past thread and relevant issues about the topic at hand, but frankly you will never listen to anything that suggests your Finnish Brewster isn't the best turning, most stable, most lethal killing machine compared to any plane up to and including those made in 1944. I'm sorry you feel that way, because yours is the only nation that ever thought so.

Weight savings alone do NOT account for that much of a performance benefit. This has been shown and proven on many other aircraft in WW2, not the least of which was the P-40 airframe, the P-51 airframe, the P-47 airframe, and dozens of others where they tried saving weight but had very little impact on overall performances.

Then this "magical" model of the Brewster with minimal weight savings is suddenly more agile than a zero, tough and fast as a wildcat, and has very few flaws.

Riiiiight.

I'm not basing this off of assumptions. I'm basing it off of a large set of related facts regarding many other aircraft, the performance of similar F2A2s and heavier F2A3s, and many points.

Whereas the only data the Fins produce is the most optomistic out of any nation that flew them (and quite a lot were exported, with more powerful engines that countered the weight gain but still did not create what we have in-game).

I'll step off the soapbox now, and you can insult me all you want. You can say I'm ignorant (which I'm not, on this matter). You can call me "US-only" kind of player, which anybody who knows me can tell you I'm not. Go ahead. It does not refute the fact you have a limited and heavily biased source of flight testing.

As for "staying quiet" -- yeah, that really helps. There are a lot of things inaccurate about how planes are modeled in this game (P-51s, F4us, P-39s, Ki-84s, Ki-61s, a number of others as well), and "staying quiet" never works to get anything fixed, especially when it is known that something is "wrong." To their credit, HTC usually wises up to a lot of issues, especially regarding the flop-stall on the old 109s and 190s, and hopefully including the super-flaps of the current airflow model. HTC is like a glacier IMO. Might take them a while, but they'll eventually get there.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 03:51:45 PM by Krusty »

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2010, 01:41:20 PM »
Talk with numbers Krusty, do your research and do your math.

All you do again is babble aimlessly without being able to tell me a single thing that's wrong with the plane with any kind of objectivity.

You keep talking about these "facts" you base your "findings" on but for some odd reason you refuse to talk about actual quantfyable aspects of performance which you think are wrong.

You keep talking about these weight savings which alone tells me that you have very little understanding of the F2A -line of fighters. F2A-1 was a rather light fighter aircraft to begin with. F2A-2 and F2A-3 were developed later and don't really have anything to do with this discussion.

And no, it's not as fast as the Wildcat and it shouldn't be:

Wildcat is the faster fighter at most altitudes by a clear margin. You can't get even elemental facts like this, which is easily double checked, correct. That pretty much sums up your credibility. Brewster is overall (considering the whole altitude band), with the I-16, the slowest fighter in the game.

Again,

Do testing, do research, study the results. If you find something wrong, type a thought out post about it asking Pyro to take a look into it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 01:43:48 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline Mus51

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2010, 07:38:52 PM »
I found some more stuff on Dutch B25's & I think enough info to skin the N5-128 aircraft with Donald Duck on the nose if any one is interested?

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Second plane is N5-128 in the next two pics.
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Not a lot to go off of in this pic just interesting that it is bare metal C model.

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A Dutch P-40 as well also not that good a photo.

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Thanks for the usefull resources lyric!


Regards,


DutchGuy

Offline FTJR

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2010, 08:26:01 PM »
Nice one Mus, are the markings a bit bright?
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Offline USRanger

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2010, 08:26:52 PM »
Friggin sweet Dutch :aok
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Offline lyric1

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2010, 08:47:22 PM »
Looks good only issue is your missing some numerical markings that are near the red line.




Offline Mus51

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2010, 10:27:04 PM »
Thanks guys!

lyric - These are older screenshots i made earlier, i didn't post them yet. But its send to HTC with the markings :)
Regards,


DutchGuy

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Dutch Skins
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2010, 12:04:17 AM »
The super-uber-latewarmonster "Brewster" we have in-game would in no way resemble the slow, heavy, ungainly (*cough*realistic*cough*) B339E that the Dutch probably used, so I don't know if it's really honest to skin that as Dutch.

Krusty, I'm still waiting for you to make a rainbow or polka dot skin for that clown-wagon.
here are some pictures for insperation...


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