P-39 gun bugs

[Krusty]

The 37mm on the P-39D fires multiple rounds (repeatedly) when you only fire it for a fraction of a second. Fires 2 rounds at once. [EDIT: Like the old yak9t bug] I'm not totally sure about how the ammo count is affected, sometimes it looks like it fires 2 rounds for only 1 round's worth of ammo, and sometimes it fires 2 rounds and takes 2 off the counter.

I got several films of this offline just now.

Second issue with the 37mm gun is the super-excessive cone-o'-dispersion. Even at a very close-and-friendly 100 yards, using the .target command, the round dispersal with single-shot sniping is off the charts. So wide that you can, in fact, MISS the target you are perfectly lined up behind. Even if it's not moving. Even if YOU'RE not moving. Dispersal on even the first-round-fired (which should be the most accurate because it doesn't have airframe shaking etc) can go way off in the boonies, and even firing a single shot, waiting, and firing a single shot can send rounds AROUND a target even at very close range.

You can't get the "cone" down to the area of your target unless you fire at the target under 60 yards (where you risk blowing yourself up in the MAs).

Is this even remotely accurate? I know the gun's rounds "drop" a lot, but is this historically accurate that the aim is so bad, or is this some bug nobody noticed until now?

[Clone155]

I just tested it myself, and did not see either of the bugs you are talking about. The 37mm was so acurate I could hit the target 1000 out. There was only a very very slight spread, but not enouph to really affect your aim unless you are aiming at a nut or bolt.

[Strip]

I flew in autopilot and slow fired at the target 400 yards away....

every shot was within about the diameter of the smallest ring.

For giggles I reset the target to 500 yards and fired a long burst....

a little larger but still plenty accurate.

I will disagree with your cone dispersion opinion.....

[Krusty]

You realize that, say, a P-51D at 400 yards the center fuselage (your target) is going to be 1/2 the width of that center circle? Or smaller?

Your rounds would have gone around it.

Somebody did a super-imposed p-51 on the target command once, to show you how large it would be compared to the gun hits. It's not that large.

[Strip]

The center is a long burst from the 37mm out of the P-39D.

The lower group is a P-51D firing six .50 cal, widely considered the most accurate aircraft gun in the game. 

While the 37mm isnt quite as accurate it certainly holds its own, perhaps having a 33% larger group.

[Motherland]

NVM misread

[Pyro]

You realize that, say, a P-51D at 400 yards the center fuselage (your target) is going to be 1/2 the width of that center circle? Or smaller?

That would be true if the P-51D had a wingspan of 10 feet or less.  Each line in the target represents a 10 increment in radius.

Krusty, when you make these hyperbolic reports like the dispersal is so wide you can't hit the .target from 100 yards, you're not doing anyone a service.  You're just putting us in a position where we have to ignore you or waste our time trying to duplicate something that doesn't exist.  You do it so much in your posts that I can't help but think you're simply trolling for attention and/or arguments.

[gyrene81]

Hey wait...quick question...are the distances for convergence and point to target set in yards or feet?

[Baumer]

Yards I believe, Snailman/Lusche will be along to correct me if I'm wrong. 

[Motherland]

Hey wait...quick question...are the distances for convergence and point to target set in yards or feet?

The distance on icons and convergence is measured in yards.

[Krusty]

That would be true if the P-51D had a wingspan of 10 feet or less.  Each line in the target represents a 10 increment in radius.

Krusty, when you make these hyperbolic reports like the dispersal is so wide you can't hit the .target from 100 yards, you're not doing anyone a service.  You're just putting us in a position where we have to ignore you or waste our time trying to duplicate something that doesn't exist.  You do it so much in your posts that I can't help but think you're simply trolling for attention and/or arguments.

First, there are 2 parts to my initial post. The gun does fire 2 rouns for a single trigger tap. Same as the yak9T used to do.

Second, I would have expected more than a simple insult from HTC staff. It only took me 10 seconds to go offline and take 3 screenshots, and paste them on top of each other. 400 yards. All zooms the same, copy, paste, upload, viola.



Compared to strip's example already posted here:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/purplehaze835/ahss64.jpg

60% of the rounds would simply miss the target no matter how well you aimed. The cone of dispersion does not drop down to match the average fighter fuselage until under 100 yards or so (but you could land hits further out, yes).

My question is: Is this supposed to be historic dispersion? Or is it some oversight nobody has noticed until now? It does not require barbs directed at me, if the answer is yes to either part. Either it IS accurate, and you simply can't fire outside 100 yards, or it IS a bug, and merits looking into. My observation itself can be verified by any other player that wants to take the time.

[Baumer]

Krusty,

You are wrong on just about every level.

First, here is an accurate screenshot of a P-51 400 yards away with a comparison of the target.


Second, here is a film of me firing 30 single shots.
http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/Krusty/Krusty39.ahf

And lastly, before you EVER complain about how anyone responds to you, take a few moments and look at the poor wording of your initial post (in this thread and others). It's no surprise to me that almost everyone gives you a hard time, regardless if your right or wrong, because you come across as arrogant and unwilling to listen. Perhaps in the future you can take the time to edit your posts to sound more helpful and constructive, rather than arrogant and demanding.

[EDIT]
And here's a film of a 39D so there's no complaints about not testing the right issue.
http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/Krusty/Krusty39D2.ahf

[Strip]

Krusty,

Perhaps you might just be expecting to much from the 37mm accuracy.

40% hit rate is not bad at 400 yards....

<S> Strip

[RTHolmes]

before we go over the top on the replies here, just think on the definition of target:

Krusty means an average fighters fuselage firing from a rear deflection, which as baumer demo'd is indeed 1/3-1/2 the diameter of the smallest ring.
Clone55 means the entire .target graphic, >10x the diameter of the smallest ring
Pyro means an average fighter wingtip-to-wingtip, about 2x the diameter of the smallest ring.


might make for a more meaningful discussion if you're all talking about the same thing...

[-sudz-]

might make for a more meaningful discussion if you're all talking about the same thing...

lol - whenever that happens I start looking around for Rod Serling.

- sudz