P-38 flight model..

[dotsie]

Ive heard that the twin engines on the P-38 meant that it never stalled when turning. Is this true?, and if it is why was this the case? Just interested that all   .

Dotsie

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[Citabr]

all planes can stall

[wells]

It could stall, it was just gentle in that there was little tendency to drop a wing and go into a spin.  With counter-rotating propellers, the torque effect is cancelled and that's usually one of the things that makes a plane 'flip over' and go into a spin when it stalls.  

[Tern]

 

Originally posted by dotsie:
Ive heard that the twin engines on the P-38 meant that it never stalled when turning. Is this true?, and if it is why was this the case? Just interested that all   .

Dotsie

The 38 has counter rotating props.  Both inwards toward the pilot.  This means virtually NO torque for takeoffs, etc.  With individual eng pwr mgt... one can practically turn the 38 on a dime, by retarding throttle on one and advancing throttle on the other, then using ruddr and stick to keep things kosher.    
The only proble the AH 38 is gonna have is its HUGE sillhoutte... It's almost the size of a 26 and that means more area to be hit.    Yeah yeah, I know all about the big hole tween pilot and rudder.  Tell it to the techs at HTC, cause actual HITTABLE surface area is slightly, repeat SLIGHTLY lareger than that of the 51-D.  I seen 'em both up close, so don't even try and say I'm wrong on that mark.
 



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Tern
"Live to Fly!  Fly to Fight!  Fight to Live!"

[Stalker1]

 one can practically turn the 38 on a dime, by retarding throttle on one and advancing throttle on the other, then using ruddr and stick to keep things kosher.

HiTech/Pyro,any chance of future support for Suncoms Duel Throttle SFS?  

[funked]

Tern, from a planform aspect the hittable surface area is way bigger than P-51, just because of the wing alone.  Add in that enormous horizontal stabilizer, the center pod, and a pair of fuselages and you've got yourself a nice fat target.

And yeah, I've seen a 38 flying formation with a 51.    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-27-2000).]

[Westy]

I've always thought the P-38 to be a nice fat target whenever I had a deflection shot in any online sim.

 Here is a nice article that talks specifically about this issue: http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/Profiles.html

 And here you can see the 38 in a threesome with a 51 and 47.

 

 -Westy

[Minotaur]

On the web page that Westy has posted up, scroll to down to the middle.  There are silhowettes of the P-38, P-47, P-51 and the Me109.  Not really all that much difference, except with the 109 which is only shown for comparison purposes.

Near the bottom, is a side by side picture of of a Spitfire and a P-38.  Their relative sizes really surprized me.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[ra]

Speaking of aircraft size, this pic of a 109E makes it look pretty small.  The horizontal tailplane looks pretty strong though!
 http://homer.span.ch/~spaw2628/images/109E_schuss.jpg

--ra--

[This message has been edited by ra (edited 02-27-2000).]

[Westy]

 Minotaur, that's part of that articles point. The P-38 does offer a large plane form for an enemy aircraft to shoot at when coming into the P-38 from an angle. But not that big.
 I do beleive that most online sims that use or used HIT bubbles did not have the open space between the trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal tablilizer. So at shooting at one is like shooting at a huge pie plate.
 In real life the P-38 was a VERY slim, two engine fighter. Smaller than the ME-110 and definately not as large as a B-25 which is what it almost looks like when flying against one in Brand "A"  

 -Westy

[funked]

Westy sez:

"The P-38 does offer a large plane form for an enemy aircraft to shoot at when coming into the P-38 from an angle. But not that big."

Just on the wing and stabilizer alone it has about 1.5 times the planform area of a P-51D.  That's a pretty big ratio.

"I do beleive that most online sims that use or used HIT bubbles did not have the open space between the trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal tablilizer."

Warbirds doesn't make this mistake FWIW.

Just doing my duty to harrass Westy.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-01-2000).]

[Vila]

""I do beleive that most online sims that use or used HIT bubbles did not have the open space between the trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal tablilizer."

Warbirds doesn't make this mistake FWIW."

Westy, I'm not sure that's really true... although WB doesn;t have "hit bubbles", it wasn't a pure hit map on the 3D object either... especially in the old days when were shooting basketballs.

I could be totally wrong, but I don;t think so.  That's one of the sources of the WB 38's "glass tail"

Vila

[Westy]

 Hee he he. Gonna have to do worse than that to get harassment points on me  

 I know 'AW' uses the hit bubble and it's like shooting a big a&& pie plate when you have a good angle on an AW P-38. The damage model hasn't changed much since, well.. it just hasn't.  I wasn't sure about Wb's at all.
 I do agree the P-38 is a larger target. My take is not as bad as people can make it sound. A deflection shot gives the shooter more sheetmetal to hit. Not so in a head ot or tail shot imo.

 -Westy

[funked]

Vila, we had Hotseat look into it on the iEN board a few months back and he said that the hole is a hole as far as the damage model was concerned.  I think the glass tail on the WB 38 has more to do with the fact that the horizontal stabilizer on the P-38 is about as big as the wings on a Fw.  

[Minotaur]

You make the call?  Bigger yes, but not alot bigger.
   


This really surprized me.  I thought P-38 would be alot bigger by comparison.
   


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-02-2000).]