Historical Accuracy

[Tilt]

Care to explain where my and your views differ on that matter?

The thrust of your argument was to point out all the areas where realism is inappropriate as a reference and thereby insinuate that realism is always inappropriate as a reference. My argument is that realism should be the first reference of resource and only rejected when found to be inappropriate.

I disagree with moot the MA can use and benefit from more game play devices that have historical origins and be more fun. But then he has only been playing 10 years

[A8HatTrick]

And we can go ahead and get rid of the Navy planes in the European theater too..........

Oh.. wait... CV Ranger Atlantic WWII

[Lusche]

The thrust of your argument was to point out all the areas where realism is inappropriate as a reference and thereby insinuate that realism is always inappropriate as a reference.

No, it wasn't.

[A8HatTrick]

The thrust of your argument was to point out all the areas where realism is inappropriate as a reference and thereby insinuate that realism is always inappropriate as a reference. My argument is that realism should be the first reference of resource and only rejected when found to be inappropriate.

I disagree with moot the MA can use and benefit from more game play devices that have historical origins and be more fun. But then he has only been playing 10 years

Shouldn't you be teaching a literature or grammar class somewhere instead of posting on the boards. (meant as a compliment to your prose as well as a knock on your dedication to it even when posting on a gaming forum.)

[A8HatTrick]

Snail, HQ needs resupplying again on Pizza!

I hope someone wins that map today.

[Lusche]

Snail, HQ needs resupplying again on Pizza!

I hope someone wins that map today.

Already happened. Montis is on.

[moot]

Tilt I'm not against historically sourced gameplay devices.  I just don't see them as trumping bottom line gameplay and fun in the MA.

Tactical savvy from WWII definitely does apply to air combat in the MA.  Only, most players don't really dig into it.  Unfortunately.

[hitech]

So my view would be that what was good ACM/GCM in WWII should be good in AH. What was poor or silly ACM/GCM in WWII should not gain  reward in AH

My argument is that realism should be the first reference of resource and only rejected when found to be inappropriate.

And you do not see these 2 statements in conflict? Good real world ACM would make for no fun at all.

As a very simple example, if promoting real world ACM was the goal, then we should put a very very high emphasis on living vs dieing. The end result of this produces real world results, if people are at a disadvantage they do there best to run and try fight again later because living is much more important than getting a kill. So what happens is very few engagements with lots of chasing each other.

So using your logic your statement of trying to recreate real world acm is inappropriate and hence should be dropped.

In my view you have the order of things mixed up, you first have to think of what is FUN, then think how you can use realism to create that fun. Because FUN is the goal realism is simply one of many tools to create fun.

HiTech

[Slate]

  The AH players are a Group of individuals. Aside from some organized squads most go off on thier own for a fight and the concept of wingman is rarely used. It's hard to find a 1 v 1 in the MA's and many are shot down while engaged with others. Every flight in WWII was a mission and not the joyride we get here.
  We get the Glory of War and not the Horror that it truly was.   Honor the fallen and have pity on the Chutes.
  

[gyrene81]

And you do not see these 2 statements in conflict? Good real world ACM would make for no fun at all.

As a very simple example, if promoting real world ACM was the goal, then we should put a very very high emphasis on living vs dieing. The end result of this produces real world results, if people are at a disadvantage they do there best to run and try fight again later because living is much more important than getting a kill. So what happens is very few engagements with lots of chasing each other.

HiTech

Very true...especially in the main arenas.

It's very obvious that there is very little emphasis on living to fight another time (even with a perk plane)...anyone who finds themselves at a disadvantage in a fight and makes a run back to friendly airspace gets to see stupidity in 200 directed toward them...runtard and runstang dweeb appear to be the most popular things to say.
Furballs are very popular in the LW MA's regardless of how many bases get taken over, because of the "thrill of the fight" yet those same furballers tend to poo poo at the idea of going into the furball area in the DA.




Here's a fix...just detune channel 200 and let everyone handle their own level of realism the way they want.    

[Tilt]

And you do not see these 2 statements in conflict? ............................. ............................. ......



In my view you have the order of things mixed up, you first have to think of what is FUN, then think how you can use realism to create that fun. Because FUN is the goal realism is simply one of many tools to create fun.

HiTech

No I would agree the primary goal is an entertaining experience. Any change you make to game play will be to enhance FUN else no need to change would be required.

Given a need is found for change ...................

You would  have a primary test statement ...............

How can we enhance this element of the gameplay to increase its FUN using a WWII historical context?

You would then consider the alternatives.....

If you cant find an appropriate one (ie realistic in concept and FUN) then you must surmise that there is not one and revert to a work around.

I thought this is what you did anyway....................... .......it seems very much what you describe

Re Lusche.then your point of view and hopefully my opinion are now somewhat clearer.

[A8HatTrick]

What this game really needs.....

Is Sharks with Lazers!

[mipoikel]

What this game really needs.....

Is Sharks with Lazers!

I dont remember any player named Shark but we do have Lazer. 

[A8HatTrick]

you must not have been on during the last convention