Author Topic: Disk Defragmenter  (Read 1460 times)

Offline batch

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 10:15:52 AM »
0.5 seconds doesnt mean a whole lot when youre talking about boot time......

however it could mean a heck of a lot if your AH installation is fragmented all over your drive even on the fastest of drives

imagine flying into a furball and your drive has to search in 20 different places to find the different skins and load them....... or sounds for that matter....... then read 200 different posts about stuttering in furballs and think about it for a minute
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 10:25:47 AM »
0.5 seconds doesnt mean a whole lot when youre talking about boot time......

however it could mean a heck of a lot if your AH installation is fragmented all over your drive even on the fastest of drives

imagine flying into a furball and your drive has to search in 20 different places to find the different skins and load them....... or sounds for that matter....... then read 200 different posts about stuttering in furballs and think about it for a minute
LOL...good one...glad you brought it up.


But then according to MrRipley:
Disk defragmenting is generally a waste of time. 5% increase in load times at max and zero affect on gameplay.


I'd rather do what I've been doing since Windows 95 came out...defrag...and not have to wonder why my read/write speeds went to poop on a fast drive.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2009, 10:59:34 AM »
Funny but I never have stutters despite never bothering to defragment.

Ok, I had stutters during beta but defragging would have done nothing to that.

Generally speaking if your hd loads anything during fighting AND causing visible pauses something is seriously wrong. Something that no amount of defragging will ever fix.
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2009, 06:33:50 PM »
Disk defragmenting is generally a waste of time. 5% increase in load times at max and zero affect on gameplay.
I haven't measured the effect on AH2 specifically, but this is certainly not true for Windows and Windows apps in general.  You can lose a LOT of performance if you don't defrag when it needs it.

Personally, I defrag after every time I patch windows, or update drivers, or patch whatever software I'm using.  Do it frequently and it doesn't take long, and then it isn't even an inconvenience.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 11:50:10 PM »
Funny but I never have stutters despite never bothering to defragment.

In all previous versions of (when we still got a cache), I experienced some stutter after each major update, because the new built cache was heavily fragmented.
Defragmenting invariably fixed that.
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Offline Speed55

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2009, 05:28:39 AM »
In all previous versions of (when we still got a cache), I experienced some stutter after each major update, because the new built cache was heavily fragmented.
Defragmenting invariably fixed that.

same here
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2009, 06:28:49 AM »
My personal opinnion is that defragmenting is a typical thing that's blown out of proportion. Unless you have a really horrible system that thrashes the harddrive fragmentation will be no performance problem in daily life.

Slow I/O combined with virus checks is the main culprit and the defragmenting is just a noneffective band-aid in attempt to fix it.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Ghastly

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 07:00:27 AM »
My personal opinnion is that defragmenting is a typical thing that's blown out of proportion. Unless you have a really horrible system that thrashes the harddrive fragmentation will be no performance problem in daily life.

Slow I/O combined with virus checks is the main culprit and the defragmenting is just a noneffective band-aid in attempt to fix it.

These days, it's true that defragmentation has a significantly reduced impact over what it once did - multitasking systems tend to read disks in small "fragments" regardless of whether the contents of individual files are placed in sequence or not.

However, files that are still read sequentially by a single threaded linear processes can easily be affected by defragmentation, so people still often see marked improvement performing some tasks - even though other tasks are entirely unaffected.

But that's neither here nor there - regardless of your opinion of what you think the "problem" is, a system is what it is, and virus checkers are what they are - and your combination of hardware and software may be in a completely different class than a system that another player must still use, due to financial or other constraints.  And as everyone who does computer systems knows, doing a few things - even if they each only help a little - can add up to a remarkable difference over not doing anything at all.

So regardless of how little defragmentation seems to help you, to tell others that doing so WONT or CANT help them - and then blame their hardware or software of being insufficient if it does - is kind of silly in my honest opinion - and in many instances, you are likely to be entirely wrong. 

Defragmentation costs nothing to perform except a bit of time (which can easily be when you aren't using the system).

You seem to be almost on a crusade to stamp out defragmentation, is there a reason for this?

<S>

P.S. By the way - Larry certainly wouldn't be the first person to potentially detect a disk problem far earlier than he otherwise might have through defragmentation - there is something to be said for a process that reads through most if not all of the contents of the hard disk every once in a while, and reports any problems that it finds.   

<S>
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 07:07:06 AM by Ghastly »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 07:35:39 AM »
Or one could say that unnecessary wear and tear caused by constant defragmenting gives a premature death to hardware..  :x

Defragging was a big thing pre XP and ntfs. Post xp and ntfs the need is greatly reduced.

You're right that many people struggle with hardware and try to salvage what's possible through defragging. But the grim reality is that what they really need is not defragging but invest 80 bucks to a spanking new harddrive. And maybe 20 bucks to another stick of ram - to stop unnecessary swapping from happening in the first place.

Here's a researched opinnion (tested hardware/several defraggers)

Quote
"Don't waste your money or time"
"Disk defragmentation did nothing to improve the performance of our machine."
PC Magazine, June 2008 issue, page 62
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 07:44:24 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 09:43:21 AM »
Sorry Ripley...but I'm agree on one point and disagree on another point.

Just on the assumption that you understand how fragmentation occurs on a hard drive and that it is a constantly occurring process which occurs at different rates with every system (even Unix) depending on typical usage.


Yes frequent defragmentation procedures can potentially cause premature wear on a hard drive...and there are some aftermarket utilities that put the drive in constant defragment mode none of which people should use...but the "premature wear" issue is similar to the MTBF (mean time before failure)...it is not an absolute.

Investing in a better hard drive...adding RAM...etc...does not stop the fragmentation process...open any application (especially Microsoft and Adobe)...use the application to create and manage files...and your hard drive will experience fragmentation...this also applies to installing/removing applications.



That article that you quote from PC Magazine was in regard to a disk defragmentation program that promised better performance if used according to the developers specs...and it did not say that defragmentation was not necessary at all...and what's totally funny about that article is it has been contradicted repeatedly by other authors who write for PC Magazine and it's sister publications, since 2001...as well as real world hands on experts at Tech Republic who frequently advise people to defragment their hard drives.




Personally, I don't use the Windows defrag process (it's based on the freeware version of Diskeeper)...there are a lot of good on demand disk defragmenters available that do a better job...and I don't recommend defragmenting more than once every 3 to 6 months unless you are doing a lot of install/remove applications or creating/deleting files on a daily basis...but that's just from my personal experience.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2009, 12:19:47 PM »
Fragmentation happens, yes. I defrag max once per year if that.

I never suffer from performance problems, especially while playing AH. How is that possible? If fragmentation would be the end-all performance killer as people describe it I should be having big trouble, no?

The truth is that with a modern 7200rpm and large cache drive you will not notice any real world difference with 1 years non-defrag use and regularly defraged drive. If you use ancient 4200rpm drives or such then you're already pooched by default. No defrag will speed it up even to the level of non-defraged new drive.

IMO people who think they need defrag in reality have too low ram so their hd swaps constantly leading to larger fragmentation among slow performance. But the answer to their problem is not defrag it's upgrading hardware. Fragmentation is a symptom, you don't cure the problem by curing the symptoms.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline oceans11

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2009, 01:35:51 PM »
hilarious all that and nobody gave you any command to run

open run type command
black screen

type chkdsk/F

if irt does not let you right click c drive properties ,tools ,error checking , check off both check boxes

apply yes to after systyem reboots and reboot

this will run for a good time , let it go

After it is done reboot and run defrag

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2009, 02:20:59 PM »
hilarious all that and nobody gave you any command to run

open run type command
black screen

type chkdsk/F

if irt does not let you right click c drive properties ,tools ,error checking , check off both check boxes

apply yes to after systyem reboots and reboot

this will run for a good time , let it go

After it is done reboot and run defrag
:huh I made the assumption he ran it and got the error message:

"Windows was unable to complete the disk check"

I'm guessing that is bad.

Might be time for a reformat.

Never did ask him at what point he got that message...good call Oceans.
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline oceans11

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2009, 03:14:24 PM »
:huh I made the assumption he ran it and got the error message:

Never did ask him at what point he got that message...good call Oceans.

No Problem
Being in IT I always look for the simple things first

He could always download an af6er market defragger and that should fix the problem

Offline 2BAD

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Re: Disk Defragmenter
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2009, 03:30:25 PM »
Fragmentation happens, yes. I defrag max once per year if that.

I never suffer from performance problems, especially while playing AH. How is that possible? If fragmentation would be the end-all performance killer as people describe it I should be having big trouble, no?

The truth is that with a modern 7200rpm and large cache drive you will not notice any real world difference with 1 years non-defrag use and regularly defraged drive. If you use ancient 4200rpm drives or such then you're already pooched by default. No defrag will speed it up even to the level of non-defraged new drive.

IMO people who think they need defrag in reality have too low ram so their hd swaps constantly leading to larger fragmentation among slow performance. But the answer to their problem is not defrag it's upgrading hardware. Fragmentation is a symptom, you don't cure the problem by curing the symptoms.






I have been in IT since the early 70's from keypunch cards to the present and the same old saying just applies even more today 


A LITTLE BIT OF KNOWLEDGE CAN BE A DANGEROUS THING

Use the simple tools to find the problemsand/or discover upcoming problems.
A heavily used pc will always benefit from a defrag.